COPS (Coli on Plug) in Australia

Hi all,
Just wondering if anyone in Australia offers the COPS setup for Gen1 Vmax?

My 88 max has been playing up lately... the usual kicking, bucking, surging etc..
Did the shotgun and rode it 2 weeks ago, it was running the best it ever has - so much so that at approx. 125km/h decided to open it up and the back wheel (with good rubber) just started spinning on the spot (couldn't hide the smile) before sending me down the road dribbling with excitement - it WAS running like a dream... until this weekend, it is NOW noticeably noisier on the left side and popping rather loudly on the right side. I'm running 4 into 2 supertrapp.

I figured I'd try and sort electrics ... though looking at the options, most electrical issues cost big $$$$.

Supposed to be going away at the end of the week for a few thousand km ride so hoping to get it sorted, otherwise I'll be a lounge lizard dreaming of the trip that didn't happen.

Any tips would be appreciated, cheers

Newride88 said:

Hi all,
Just wondering if anyone in Australia offers the COPS setup for Gen1 Vmax?

My 88 max has been playing up lately... the usual kicking, bucking, surging etc..
Did the shotgun and rode it 2 weeks ago, it was running the best it ever has - so much so that at approx. 125km/h decided to open it up and the back wheel (with good rubber) just started spinning on the spot (couldn't hide the smile) before sending me down the road dribbling with excitement - it WAS running like a dream... until this weekend, it is NOW noticeably noisier on the left side and popping rather loudly on the right side. I'm running 4 into 2 supertrapp.

I figured I'd try and sort electrics ... though looking at the options, most electrical issues cost big $$$$.

Supposed to be going away at the end of the week for a few thousand km ride so hoping to get it sorted, otherwise I'll be a lounge lizard dreaming of the trip that didn't happen.

Any tips would be appreciated, cheers

Click to expand...

Me personally if it was running great after a shotgun, and then went back to running bad, I would try the shotgun again just to see what would happen. Its cheap and easy to do.

COPS are a good replacement if you have a bad coil. Most of the time though you will have corrosion either built up in the wires to the coils, or on the spark plug wires themselves. So take the wires off and look for corrosion, and clip off 1/8th to 1/4 of the wire itself. You can also look for corrosion in the boot itself.

Below is a pic of what it can look like.

Thanks for the advice Traumahawk... probably a good idea, Cheers

I agree with Traumahawk, your wires or caps may be acting wonky. I made my own set of COPS, bought 4 sticks and a wiring harness on EBay. All coil sticks use the same connector. I bought sticks from a Suzuki 750, and a harness from a Honda 600. Clip off the wires powering the original coils, lengthen as needed, and connect to your new stick connectors. I paid no attention to polarity as I don't think the coil stick cares much which direction the current flows, it's just a coil. Remove the rear coils. I left the front ones on the bike, but relieved them of their connectors. It's plug and play from that point. Total cost, $25.00, a bit of solder and heat shrink tube, and an hours work. They have been installed 5 years now, and have worked perfectly. As a bonus, removing the rear coils gives you a perfect place to mount that new Series voltage regulator you've been dreaming about..

Bill Seward said:

I agree with Traumahawk, your wires or caps may be acting wonky. I made my own set of COPS, bought 4 sticks and a wiring harness on EBay. All coil sticks use the same connector. I bought sticks from a Suzuki 750, and a harness from a Honda 600. Clip off the wires powering the original coils, lengthen as needed, and connect to your new stick connectors. I paid no attention to polarity as I don't think the coil stick cares much which direction the current flows, it's just a coil. Remove the rear coils. I left the front ones on the bike, but relieved them of their connectors. It's plug and play from that point. Total cost, $25.00, a bit of solder and heat shrink tube, and an hours work. They have been installed 5 years now, and have worked perfectly. As a bonus, removing the rear coils gives you a perfect place to mount that new Series voltage regulator you've been dreaming about..

Click to expand...

Thanks guys, appreciated!

Look into resistors if you have the OEM brainbox. Im sure someone can correct me as im flying at the edge of my knowledge here. The OEM coils have a primary resistance of ~3.0 ohms, and cops range from ~1.2 - 2.0 ohms. So an external resistor would be ideal to get the total resistance to match the 3.0 ohms of stock, ie a cop with a primary resistance of 1.5 ohms would be used with a 1.5 ohm resistor to get a total resistance of 3.0 ohms, or the added current could bake the brainbox, earlier years are more delicate but not sure specifically which years. The specifics of said resistors seems to be almost proprietary but the most I gather is 20-30W minimum, 1% or 5% wirewound with an ohm value to make the 3.0 ohms when used in conjunction with your specific cops. The specifics of the resistors change depending on where you read it. have even heard 50w but that resistor is the size of a dead rodent. I got 4 Denso coils and the cop harness from a CBR for $15 shipped, so as soon as I figure out what sorts of resistors are appropriate and measure coil resistance to determine value ill make it all happen. I like the plug-n-play kits but its not in the budget for me until after I move next year and my plug wires are coming off in pieces now. Im told that if you have the aftermarket brainbox than no resistors are required. I have the OEM box on both my Vmax and Venture so I need to figure out what works correctly.

I hope if I have any misinformation here that I will be corrected. Im also hoping that someonewho knows the conversion can shine some light on appropriate resistors so those of us with a DIY streak or budgetary issues can properly and safely update our steeds.

Traumahawk said:

Me personally if it was running great after a shotgun, and then went back to running bad, I would try the shotgun again just to see what would happen. Its cheap and easy to do.

COPS are a good replacement if you have a bad coil. Most of the time though you will have corrosion either built up in the wires to the coils, or on the spark plug wires themselves. So take the wires off and look for corrosion, and clip off 1/8th to 1/4 of the wire itself. You can also look for corrosion in the boot itself.

Below is a pic of what it can look like.

Click to expand...

I thought the main issue with COPS were cracking? Both of my bikes had cracked coils.

I'm sorry not COPS but regular coils cracking.

Oem coils are known to crack, and the added opportunity for failure that comes with HT leads, especially as they age and are exposed to the elements. COPs slip directly onto the plug eliminating that potential problem and the expense of replacing the HT leads as a matter of maintainance. Besides its nice to apply modern tech where cheap and easy. Replacing a bad COP takes moments, I would not want to replace a failed OEM coil for a front cyl.

The coils that came off my 99 with 16k mi were split wide open and the ones I just took off a 36k mi 1985 are in very good condition.

caseyjones955 said:

Oem coils are known to crack, and the added opportunity for failure that comes with HT leads, especially as they age and are exposed to the elements. COPs slip directly onto the plug eliminating that potential problem and the expense of replacing the HT leads as a matter of maintainance. Besides its nice to apply modern tech where cheap and easy. Replacing a bad COP takes moments, I would not want to replace a failed OEM coil for a front cyl.

The coils that came off my 99 with 16k mi were split wide open and the ones I just took off a 36k mi 1985 are in very good condition.

Click to expand...

The thing that people talk about is cracks in the coils. The coils are actually filled with epoxy, so the cracks dont make it to the inner workings of the coils. So, if they bother you, fill them with silicone. Usually there will be a misfire due to corrosion build up somewhere.

Sometimes there will be a bad coil.

Also the stock ECU/TCI....etc.......(people use different terms) doesnt have an issue if you use COPS without resistors. It only appears to be the aftermarket dyna units.

Traumahawk said:

The thing that people talk about is cracks in the coils. The coils are actually filled with epoxy, so the cracks dont make it to the inner workings of the coils. So, if they bother you, fill them with silicone. Usually there will be a misfire due to corrosion build up somewhere.

Sometimes there will be a bad coil.

Also the stock ECU/TCI....etc.......(people use different terms) doesnt have an issue if you use COPS without resistors. It only appears to be the aftermarket dyna units.

Click to expand...

There is a lot out there on the delicate early OEM units not built as well as later years and needing resistors, Maybe its the ignitek (sp) unit that is said to not need resistors. I have also read that the Dyna units need them or they will cook quickly. Seems there is a lot of conflicting info on resistors with the OEM box.

So if none of the OEM brains need resistors, that would super simplifty and cheapen installing COPs on a vmax to a $10 ebay harness (or just buy coil terminals online) and the coils of your choosing, also eerily cheap on Ebay, a few minutes of soldering, splicing and heatshrink tubing for good measure. He kits made and sold are ~$240 shipped so I figured the cost was partially brand new coils and high quality resistors.

caseyjones955 said:

There is a lot out there on the delicate early OEM units not built as well as later years and needing resistors, Maybe its the ignitek (sp) unit that is said to not need resistors. I have also read that the Dyna units need them or they will cook quickly. Seems there is a lot of conflicting info on resistors with the OEM box.

So if none of the OEM brains need resistors, that would super simplifty and cheapen installing COPs on a vmax to a $10 ebay harness (or just buy coil terminals online) and the coils of your choosing, also eerily cheap on Ebay, a few minutes of soldering, splicing and heatshrink tubing for good measure.

Click to expand...

I was directed to this site being told someone here makes them and sells them on here but i cannot find it.

There is someone. Morleys sells them also. I have purchased a lot of things from Morleys (Sean) and have had great experiences with all of it. If im not mistaken they are made by another member here and sold through Sean. Also there is a set in the classifieds that someone bought and apparently never used.

I got my set from a guy that has been banned awhile back and been happy with those although I did have to redo a crimp on one. When I do mine im going to soldier and heatshrink completely removing the oem coil plug. Its not like im ever going to reinstall the OEM units.

Later model oem ignition units do not need resistors on COPs. I made my own and have run them all season with no issues.

This can be confirmed by reading a number of available threads on this site on the subject.

I have read that Dyna boxes will smoke if you don't add resistors.


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Jan Bee said:

I was directed to this site being told someone here makes them and sells them on here but i cannot find it.

Click to expand...

Sean Morley sells them. You can contact him at [email protected]

caseyjones955 said:

There is someone. Morleys sells them also. I have purchased a lot of things from Morleys (Sean) and have had great experiences with all of it. If im not mistaken they are made by another member here and sold through Sean. Also there is a set in the classifieds that someone bought and apparently never used.

I got my set from a guy that has been banned awhile back and been happy with those although I did have to redo a crimp on one. When I do mine im going to soldier and heatshrink completely removing the oem coil plug. Its not like im ever going to reinstall the OEM units.

Click to expand...

Thank you, I found it.

Specs95t said:

Later model oem ignition units do not need resistors on COPs. I made my own and have run them all season with no issues.

This can be confirmed by reading a number of available threads on this site on the subject.

I have read that Dyna boxes will smoke if you don't add resistors.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Is that the difference between the early analog brainboxes and the later digital units? So digital units do not need resistors but arguably the analog units do, or none of the OEM units need resistors? I have noticed Bill running them on his 85 with no trouble.

I may go through mine too solder them up and eliminate crimps and resistors if they are not needed on my 99 max. Im still inclear if the analog unit on my 89 Venture should include resistors or not, (Ventures had old analog boxes until 90) I know that Venture and Vmax ignition systems are very similar.

So aside from the aftermarket Dyna box, do any of them really need resistors to avoid premature failure?

Update on my '85 without resistors...
It works great and never missed a beat. Must be 7 or 8,000 miles by now.

The early analog TCIs use older transistor technology so they are.more prone to failure due increased circuit current caused by a lower primary resistance. That does not mean either that they will all fail or not. It's luck I guess. The more recent ones (90 plus) are more resilient to current increase. The resistor is used to raise the circuit resistance to the normal coil primary value so the TCI sees the same current associated to that overall resistance of 3ish ohms. Thanks power rating on the resistor is such that it withstands the continuous use without burning or overheating above rated standard.

wildweasel_pt said:

The early analog TCIs use older transistor technology so they are.more prone to failure due increased circuit current caused by a lower primary resistance. That does not mean either that they will all fail or not. It's luck I guess. The more recent ones (90 plus) are more resilient to current increase. The resistor is used to raise the circuit resistance to the normal coil primary value so the TCI sees the same current associated to that overall resistance of 3ish ohms. Thanks power rating on the resistor is such that it withstands the continuous use without burning or overheating above rated standard.

Click to expand...

Makes sense, so it is 1990 for vmax to, not just Venture.

I went and did some searching and was unable to find any stick off any application that landed in the 2.5 - 3.0 ohm range. I hoped to find sticks that could be used without a resistor that may effect spark, but nope. I did find that a ceramic 25 watt wirewound 5% resistor in the needed value has apparently worked very well for other makes and models going to cops and using analog brainboxes. I can buy them locally for < $10 for all 4 and a saddlebag spare so Ill try that. Im going to get close to 3 ohms total or im always going to wonder when I hear a snap and take a lung full of smoked semiconductors, probably on a long deserted stretch of rural nowhere. Gonna err on the side of caution for the 89 Venture and use resistors and not tempt fate as it closes in on 30 years old. Going to redo my 99 vmax without resistors since it has the digital brain and I want to eliminate crimps.

Ill post pics and recipe after I know it works correctly and stays reasonably cool. If I didnt have my $ tied up in other things I would snag one of the kits, they sure look nice.