1999 Clutch issues?

OK, it's starting to look as if the great deal I got on this 1999 wasn't such a great deal. :bang head: I guess it will depend on the extent of this issue.

Clutch is slipping somewhat. I tried to jump it in 2nd gear and it slipped - had to drop into 3rd to get it to bump-start it. The bike also won't spin the tire or pull the front wheel on the 1-2 shift. I was under the impression that it was hard not to do one or another. To me it just feels as if something is "gummed up", but this is also my 1st bike with a hydraulic clutch. It's not bad enough for the revs to come up when shifting.

• Could this be a master or slave cylinder problem, or is it most likely the clutch itself?
• Are there preferred kits for the mater / slave cylinder rebuilds? Aftermarket or OEM?
• Is there a "How-to" for the clutch overhaul? (I have rebuilt my dirt bike clutches years ago, but a how-to with photos is always appreciated.)
• Is it worth tearing it down and cleaning the plates in a degreaser or kerosene, then soaking in oil and reassembling?
• If it turns out that the fibers are worn, are there aftermarket fibers that are better than stock, or should I go with OEM plates?
• Is there anything else I should be checking or doing while it's apart?

Thank you in advance.

If the clutch slips, it will be worse in higher gears (I had to be reminded of this until I had the worn plates remind me-that, and the forum).

As-long as it doesn't jump-out of 2nd gear engagement, you are probably OK w/the gearbox. Your complaint about it's starting to look as if the great deal I got on this 1999 wasn't such a great deal only is true if you have to split the cases to do internal work, and you don't have the skills to do it-then, things become expensive, quickly. A bad engine can be solved by getting a good used one, but if you have to go that route, it's still a good idea to open the engine to take a look at the conn rods and main crank bearings, the condition of the gearset engagement dogs, and a o-ring fix for the oil pump. You can ignore these things, and end-up w/an engine that is no-better than what you were trying to replace. Better to find-out the problems ahead of-time.

Since you seem to know about the clutch, yes, go w/new stock friction plates, consider the PCW 'extra-friction plate' mod, and their heavy-duty diaphragm spring, which should cost you about $165 US shipped (it contains a side cover gasket too), if they haven't raised their prices. Scuff the steelies w/scotchbrite or some 80-grade sandpaper, & reassemble.

There are numerous places on the forum where you can download a factory manual. you may only want to print the clutch for easy reference, but do the whole thing to have on-hand.

You don't "need" a Barnett pressure plate or the 'double-(diaphragm) disc' referred to as the 'DD' conversion, nothing to do w/strippers. If you want to spend the $, go-ahead. the PCW full kit is what I installed and it has worked well for me since. The DD clutch lever pull is obviously twice the pull of the stock lever effort, as-it's two diaphragm clutch springs stacked. Not what you want in stop & go traffic.

If you go the PCW route as-above, I think you will get the most bang for the $ and be very happy w/your bike's clutch action.

http://www.pcwracing.net/page10.htm

OK, I just read the newbie FAQ, so we can skip the OEM VS Aftermarket clutch plates question. I also read about the Double-D mod, so the last question is answered too.

From the original post he states that the RPM's are not rising in proportion to the road speed which is telling me that there is no clutch slip. An easy way to prove that would be to pull 5th gear at low speed and then crank on the gas. Any slip would then manifest itself more readily as the clutch tries to control the torque. It sounds more like he's expecting to pull the front wheel air borne or spin the rear tire in the lower gears. The former is easily achieved on my Max but the latter doesn't happen due to a very sticky rear tire.

Chris.

I carry the heavy duty spring as well ($75) and of course have the standard spring for the DD mod (also $75).

Do the 5th gear testing and see if the clutch slips.

You haven't specified what exhaust and general setup the bike has. They don't ALL yank 2nd gear up or break the tires loose (usually takes a worn tire to break loose in the 1-2 shift). Also, not everyone shifts the same to get that "wheelie" in 2nd gear.

Second gear is perfect. It engages easily and does not pop out of gear.
I will try starting in 5th after work today to further diagnose this. If there is slippage then I'll know to replace the fiber clutch plates and inspect the steels.

If there is NOT slippage (bike stalls) when attempting to start in 5th, then I ask again, could this be something gummed up / dragging? It just does not seem to engage quickly. If it were a cable actuated clutch I would say it acts as if the cable is gummed up.

Thank you!

one2dmax said:

I carry the heavy duty spring as well ($75) and of course have the standard spring for the DD mod (also $75).

Do the 5th gear testing and see if the clutch slips.

You haven't specified what exhaust and general setup the bike has. They don't ALL yank 2nd gear up or break the tires loose (usually takes a worn tire to break loose in the 1-2 shift). Also, not everyone shifts the same to get that "wheelie" in 2nd gear.

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I have the (power robbing) Cobra slip-ons. Will exhaust really make that big a difference?

4 into 1 exhaust is #2 on my list of must have mods.

HyperPete said:

I have the (power robbing) Cobra slip-ons. Will exhaust really make that big a difference?

4 into 1 exhaust is #2 on my list of must have mods.

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To be quick and simple. Yes!

You would be better with stock exhaust vs the cobra setup.

Check out UFO exhaust or Marks.

Todd

customizedcreationz said:

To be quick and simple. Yes!

You would be better with stock exhaust vs the cobra setup.

Check out UFO exhaust or Marks.

Todd

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Sadly I do not have access to the stock cans - I bought it this way. Well, time and money will correct this! A 17" rear rim is 1st on the list along with radials and that will hopefully resolve the terrible vibration at 85 and above. Then comes the exhaust and jetting.

Unfortunately my house needs chimney work before the heating season so exhaust may be a bit down the road. The money tree only produces so much at a time!

EDIT: I found this while searching the forum: http://vmax.lvlhead.com/tips/clutch.htm
That answers another of my questions.

I tested it over lunch - put it in 5th gear and let the clutch out. It promptly stalled - no signs of slippage.

Maybe I'll flush the system with fresh DOT4 to see if that helps.

Remove your clutch lever, grease the barrel that pivots with the master plunger, reinstall, test on the road in higher gears. A faulty/stuck pivot has gotten me twice already.

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davesax36 said:

Remove your clutch lever, grease the barrel that pivots with the master plunger, reinstall, test on the road in higher gears. A faulty/stuck pivot has gotten me twice already.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4

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It will be nice if it's that simple! Thanks for the heads-up. I'll do that tonight when I get home.

Only thing I see that was not mentioned we're the clutch "Steels" which are just like friction
plates but all steel. These things can and do get glazed or even blued when feathering clutches too much or once it starts it only gets worse. A glass bead blasting can get them back to snuff. Aluminum oxide blasting would probably be too rough. Only worth doing if you free access to a blaster. If not, examine your steels and buy new if needed as they are not horribly expensive. Your old ones can be turned into a clutch holding tool so they are not junk.
Always go back to square one in oil and start with Yamalube and then experiment from there. Too many have tried friction modified oils and started having slipping issues. Perhaps the friction plates are already steeped with friction modifiers and onl new ones will improve things. Stock Slave Cylinders work fine in most all applications. Again, the cost and hassle of rebuilding not worth it over buying a new one.

If you want to have your steel plates bead blasted, Sean does that on an exchange basis. Its not much money at all. The best way to contact him is [email protected] or I'm certain that others on here offer the same service.

The previous owner said he has always used Castrol GTX and changed the oil every 2K miles. He ran the bike with VBoost disabled "because he did not like the throttle being jerky on the highway" so I am not concerned about it having been beaten on.

If I disassemble the clutch to inspect it I would likely "freshen" the steels by rubbing them in figure 8's over Emory cloth on glass - what I used to do with my dirt bike clutches in the 70's and 80's. If they are burnt then I would replace them

I'm HOPING that what Davesax36 suggested is the culprit. I'll start with the easiest proposed solution 1st and go from there.

Great responses, thank you. I can see that this is a really active forum and an invaluable resource! :thumbs up:

Get that oil outta there, too. Anything labeled "energy saving" is gonna mess things up.

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I don't think GTX is considered energy conserving. Someone else told me it was fine, but I do plan to change to Rotella T6 next oil change.

I think you may have the wrong idea about 5th gear: nobody means, "start from a dead stop in 5th gear," they mean, if you get into 5th gear in the normal progression of gear changes to get up to say, 65 mph, and then when you open the throttle, it slips in the clutch, you probably need the friction discs and possibly the diaphragm spring replaced. The revs will increase with little or no increase in road-speed. That's what's meant by, "try it in 5th."

Fire-medic said:

I think you may have the wrong idea about 5th gear: nobody means, "start from a dead stop in 5th gear," they mean, if you get into 5th gear in the normal progression of gear changes to get up to say, 65 mph, and then when you open the throttle, it slips in the clutch, you probably need the friction discs and possibly the diaphragm spring replaced. The revs will increase with little or no increase in road-speed. That's what's meant by, "try it in 5th."

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I think I read a thing about this somewhere. The idea was to put the tire up against the wall in the garage, and see how much slip you get out of the clutch letting it out SLOWLY in 5th. I never tried it, as mine presented quite obviously on the highway.

davesax36 said:

I think I read a thing about this somewhere. The idea was to put the tire up against the wall in the garage, and see how much slip you get out of the clutch letting it out SLOWLY in 5th. I never tried it, as mine presented quite obviously on the highway.

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And if you want to beat on a woman to see if you can make her cry, that's something you can do, too. Yes, I am being ridiculous, but you don't need to abuse your bike. I would much-rather go for a ride and see if it slips when I notch it into 5th at normal road speeds and crank it on as-opposed to trying to move my garage off its foundation. Yes, it's a method, what you described, and not one I would choose. Your choice, if you decide to try it, and I understand you are just reciting a method you heard-of the see if the clutch slips.