Self cancelling turn signals

dannymax · Jun 26, 2013

Has this always been on the VMax? Seems like every one I ever had did have the self cancelling signals...but my '86 won't self cancel and I'm wondering if the early bikes maybe weren't equipped with them.

Second part....if the '86 was equipped with them, where is it located, part of the flasher, relay....?

ZackDaniels · Jun 26, 2013

I'm about one more 'sitting in the turn lane with no blinker' experience away from disabling mine. They rhyme and reason to them when triggered at speed (heading into a turn lane) is stupid for anyplace that has actual traffic. Sitting there with the blinker no longer blinking requires I trigger it again, which now that the bike is stopped means it will never self-cancel no matter what.

HD does this right honestly. Triggered + Distance = Cancelled. I don't know why it needs to be more complicated than that.

one2dmax · Jun 26, 2013

It should self cancel based on time or distance if I remember correctly. it's tied in with the speedo (white/green wire if I remember correctly), the "diode" block, and relay assembly (larger one under the left scoop on the early ignitions). I haven't looked at the schematic but I believe that's correct. Dingy can tell us more since he's better at the electrical then I am.

dannymax · Jun 26, 2013

one2dmax said:
It should self cancel based on time or distance if I remember correctly. it's tied in with the speedo (white/green wire if I remember correctly), the "diode" block, and relay assembly (larger one under the left scoop on the early ignitions). I haven't looked at the schematic but I believe that's correct. Dingy can tell us more since he's better at the electrical then I am.

Thanks Sean....I thought it was time and distance also, if you're sitting in traffic, and the unit is working correctly, I don't think it will stop blinking.

I'll get the schematic out and start with the white/green speedo wire, hopefully after a few hours it will start to make sense. :biglaugh:

dannymax · Jun 26, 2013

ZackDaniels said:
I'm about one more 'sitting in the turn lane with no blinker' experience away from disabling mine. They rhyme and reason to them when triggered at speed (heading into a turn lane) is stupid for anyplace that has actual traffic. Sitting there with the blinker no longer blinking requires I trigger it again, which now that the bike is stopped means it will never self-cancel no matter what.

HD does this right honestly. Triggered + Distance = Cancelled. I don't know why it needs to be more complicated than that.

I misread...if you trigger it before you stop rolling it will shut off....never knew that. It does seem unnecessarily complex, always wondered if there was a little guy in there with a stopwatch..............:confused2:

gamorg02 · Jun 26, 2013

i was always it was under the impression, distance or time, whichver is greater.

95spfldmax · Jun 26, 2013

Yes. The cancelling option was on the early bikes and mostly sure on all of them. My '86 had them Danny. Garrett is correct also. They go for time or distance whichever is greater and work perfect. If your rolling up to a long turn lane and miss the light just hit the button a second time. Done. For the ONLY option that came on the Max they at least got this one right.

dannymax · Jun 26, 2013

Found this on some other Yamaha forum, probly the same thing we have....

"The signal lights are connected to the switch which in turn is connected to a signal light relay and then by a single wire to the meter assembly...in the dash

They will self cancel after the bike has travelled 150 m or 15 sec which ever comes first..so they are both distance and time dependent and the bike has to be moving...ok

so there must be some sort of computer chip in the meter assembly that can compute
distance from the odometer and clock????

Now here is where I get brain fouling....

I think if you put the signals on as you roll to a stop they will turn off after fifteen seconds...

So you must turn them on again.."

dannymax · Jun 26, 2013

95spfldmax said:
Yes. The cancelling option was on the early bikes and mostly sure on all of them. My '86 had them Danny. Garrett is correct also. They go for time or distance whichever is greater and work perfect. If your rolling up to a long turn lane and miss the light just hit the button a second time. Done. For the ONLY option that came on the Max they at least got this one right.

Thanks Mike, I thought my '85 had them, figured the '86 should too. Now just a simple matter of figuring out why they don't cancel....how hard could it be? :rofl_200:

jfeagins · Jun 26, 2013

I believe that if you trigger it again while still sitting at a stop light, it will begin it's distance countdown from scratch once you start rolling again. I've never, ever had mine fail to eventually cancel itself to off. In fact, for a lot of years, I didn't even know I had one. I thought I was that good at remembering to trigger it off manually, and that I'd lost that feature when I got off the old XS1100 and began riding my 1985 Vmax.

BUMMER that Mother Yamaha didn't continue the tradition of self cancelling signals on the Gen 2's.

twistedmax · Jun 26, 2013

Yep, one of the things that urks me about the Gen II is the lack of self canceling signals. WTF

dingy · Jun 26, 2013

Attached is a cut from service manual on the 1st gen MKII Ventures (86-93).

The white green speedo wire is connected to a reed switch that lays just above the incoming speedometer cable from wheel. This provides a pulse that is is able to be used by a timing/distance circuit in the 41R starter relay. The 41R contains turn & hazard functions as well as starter relay. Pictures attached of reed switch in the instrument cluster & a picture of backend of speedo head. A magnet in speedo head rotates and causes the reed switch to open & close at a rate determined by rotation of front wheel.

As usual, this is all based on Venture experience, AKA VMax's crazy uncle.

Gary

m-cman · Jun 26, 2013

I always thought it was time and distance whichever is longest. If shortest, they would time out at a stop light. They would never be on longer than the 10 or 15 seconds. Mine never time out at a stop light unless I have traveled the required distance.

All the old self canceling signals except HD and BMW worked in a similar fashion. HD is different. The left signal is controlled by a switch on the left side and vice versa. They operate till you cancel. Not a bad setup. I almost always manually control because I want to be sure the following traffic is properly notified!!!

dannymax · Jun 26, 2013

twistedmax said:
Yep, one of the things that urks me about the Gen II is the lack of self canceling signals. WTF

FJR's don't have them either....seems like a step backward to me.

dingy said:
Attached is a cut from service manual on the 1st gen MKII Ventures (86-93).

The white green speedo wire is connected to a reed switch that lays just above the incoming speedometer cable from wheel. This provides a pulse that is is able to be used by a timing/distance circuit in the 41R starter relay. The 41R contains turn & hazard functions as well as starter relay. Pictures attached of reed switch in the instrument cluster & a picture of backend of speedo head. A magnet in speedo head rotates and causes the reed switch to open & close at a rate determined by rotation of front wheel.

As usual, this is all based on Venture experience, AKA VMax's crazy uncle.

Gary

Thanks a lot Gary, this and a VMax schematic should do the trick. :worthy:

95spfldmax · Jun 26, 2013

m-cman said:
I always thought it was time and distance whichever is longest. If shortest, they would time out at a stop light. They would never be on longer than the 10 or 15 seconds. Mine never time out at a stop light unless I have traveled the required distance.

All the old self canceling signals except HD and BMW worked in a similar fashion. HD is different. The left signal is controlled by a switch on the left side and vice versa. They operate till you cancel. Not a bad setup. I almost always manually control because I want to be sure the following traffic is properly notified!!!

That is correct.

longer= greater

dingy · Jun 26, 2013

dannymax said:
FJR's don't have them either....seems like a step backward to me.

Thanks a lot Gary, this and a VMax schematic should do the trick. :worthy:

They don't detail whats going on inside the 41R relay though. It is much more involved than just a coil & contacts.

I attached a screen capture of the 41R circuits I have for a VMax, but there is electronic circuitry that is not shown.

Gary

dannymax · Jun 26, 2013

dingy said:
They don't detail whats going on inside the 41R relay though. It is much more involved than just a coil & contacts.

I attached a screen capture of the 41R circuits I have for a VMax, but there is electronic circuitry that is not shown.

Gary

Do you sell these components Gary? I'll swap some parts from my '96 till I hit the faulty peice, then replace it.

RaWarrior · Jun 27, 2013

So let me get this straight.....

I want to ensure traffic around me is aware of my intentions so I'm not run over by a car. But damn, blinkers are just so much work. Turning them on, turning them off, I don't have time for all this. I think I'll leave my safety in the hands of a bullshit idiot-proofing feature that rarely ever works as intended.

Are you serious? I couldn't think of a "feature" that matters less.

johnpclynch · Jun 27, 2013

Never had self-cancelling on my Max, or any bike I've ever owned

Dr.n2o · Jun 27, 2013

I never tried it on my '89....been turning them on and off manually for ever and probably still will. Curious to try though

Self cancelling turn signals

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