clutch problems(barnett)??? 1st gen vmax

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vmax1998

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Hello all, this is one of my first posts and i'm hoping to get some much needed help. So I have a recently new to me 1998 vmax 1200 with 17000 miles on it. Soon after I bought it i noticed the clutch was slipping slightly when i gave it more than half throttle. So i rode it as it was for a day or 2, then after about a 30min ride I noticed it was slipping a lot more anytime I gave it any throttle, on the way home I tried to just slowly make it home and long story short I fried my clutch. I was unable to move the bike at all with the bike in gear and the clutch lever completely out. So I towed it home and pulled off the clutch cover and saw tons of burnt clutch pieces and it reeked of burning clutch. I ordered a barnett clutch kit with the pressure plate 6 spring conversion. I replaced all of the friction plates and steel plates as well as the pressure plate. I could not get the pressure rod #2 according to the manual to fully seat inside the middle hole with the steel ball behind it. After a lot of cursing and drinks I got to thinking that maybe the pushrod #1 behind it wasnt fully pushed in. So I opened the clutch bleeder valve and got an allen key inside where the pushrod was (in the middle of that hex nut with the little ears on it) and I pushed and the pushrod moved in. So I reinstalled that steel ball and the #2 pushrod and voila it was seated. I threw the pressure plate on and the springs (gold ones that came with the kit) and torqued them to specs (about 5ft lbs-6ft lbs) and put everything back on. Also changed the oil with castrol rotella 15w-40 NON SYNTHETIC HEAVY DUTY TRUCK OIL which I have read is a good oil. I bled the clutch and made sure everything was good and took it for a ride. For about 5-10min it was good the clutch lever released closer to the handle bar grip which was a good feel. After those 10min the clutch started releasing further away from the handle bars and it started slipping again.... So I rode back home and parked it and ordered some heavy duty springs for the clutch to hopefully cure the slipping( green springs for the barnett pn 501-82-06023). I am going to put them on today and hopefully fix the slipping, if not I am open to suggestions because I am not sure what is the problem..... Would appreciate some advice or insight on this issue. Thanks guys.
 
Last edited:
Hello all, this is one of my first posts and i'm hoping to get some much needed help. So I have a recently new to me 1998 vmax 1200 with 17000 miles on it. Soon after I bought it i noticed the clutch was slipping slightly when i gave it more than half throttle. So i rode it as it was for a day or 2, then after about a 30min ride I noticed it was slipping a lot more anytime I gave it any throttle, on the way home I tried to just slowly make it home and long story short I fried my clutch. I was unable to move the bike at all with the bike in gear and the clutch lever completely out. So I towed it home and pulled off the clutch cover and saw tons of burnt clutch pieces and it reeked of burning clutch. I ordered a barnett clutch kit with the pressure plate 6 spring conversion. I replaced all of the friction plates and steel plates as well as the pressure plate. I could not get the pressure rod #2 according to the manual to fully seat inside the middle hole with the steel ball behind it. After a lot of cursing and drinks I got to thinking that maybe the pushrod #1 behind it wasnt fully pushed in. So I opened the clutch bleeder valve and got an allen key inside where the pushrod was (in the middle of that hex nut with the little ears on it) and I pushed and the pushrod moved in. So I reinstalled that steel ball and the #2 pushrod and voila it was seated. I threw the pressure plate on and the springs (gold ones that came with the kit) and torqued them to specs (about 5ft lbs-6ft lbs) and put everything back on. Also changed the oil with castrol rotella 15w-40 NON SYNTHETIC HEAVY DUTY TRUCK OIL which I have read is a good oil. I bled the clutch and made sure everything was good and took it for a ride. For about 5-10min it was good the clutch lever released closer to the handle bar grip which was a good feel. After those 10min the clutch started releasing further away from the handle bars and it started slipping again.... So I rode back home and parked it and ordered some heavy duty springs for the clutch to hopefully cure the slipping( green springs for the barnett pn 501-82-06023). I am going to put them on today and hopefully fix the slipping, if not I am open to suggestions because I am not sure what is the problem..... Would appreciate some advice or insight on this issue. Thanks guys.



Welcome to the forum, and congrats on the Vmax purchase. If you installed the clutch as directed in the directions, then I would consider something other then the clutch itself being the problem. I have the Barnett and two seasons now flawless. I’m thinking another guy here had this problem once as well, and was lever/ master related. Are you running stock controls for clutch and brake, and if so, are the levers stock, or been replaced with aftermarket ones? I want to say aftermarket levers on stock controls needed some tweaking due to not fully disengaging. I would scroll through the forum looking for that, or maybe the person who had that issue will read and reply.

I’m wondering at this point if you have that clutch cover back off again?


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Welcome to the forum, and congrats on the Vmax purchase. If you installed the clutch as directed in the directions, then I would consider something other then the clutch itself being the problem. I have the Barnett and two seasons now flawless. I’m thinking another guy here had this problem once as well, and was lever/ master related. Are you running stock controls for clutch and brake, and if so, are the levers stock, or been replaced with aftermarket ones? I want to say aftermarket levers on stock controls needed some tweaking due to not fully disengaging. I would scroll through the forum looking for that, or maybe the person who had that issue will read and reply.

I’m wondering at this point if you have that clutch cover back off again?


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Hi thanks for the welcome, I just pulled the cover off and replaced the springs with the heavy duty springs and its still slipping. Also I know theres suppossed to be 15 plates? correct me if i am wrong 7 clutch plates and 8 friction plates? I ordered a kit from ebay and it came with 17 an extra friction and clutch plate. I left them out because they wouldnt fit. I dont think that could be part of the issue tho..... hmm... Yes btw all of the levers on my max are stock and also the brake is stock.
 
Did the pressure plate sit right up against the friction disc or was there a little gap?


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Hi thanks for the welcome, I just pulled the cover off and replaced the springs with the heavy duty springs and its still slipping. Also I know theres suppossed to be 15 plates? correct me if i am wrong 7 clutch plates and 8 friction plates? I ordered a kit from ebay and it came with 17 an extra friction and clutch plate. I left them out because they wouldnt fit. I dont think that could be part of the issue tho..... hmm... Yes btw all of the levers on my max are stock and also the brake is stock.



You didn’t mix up one of the friction plates with the half friction plate by chance?


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You didn’t mix up one of the friction plates with the half friction plate by chance?


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No I didn’t mix them up I don’t think. The first friction plate I put on from the kit was the half friction plate. All of the other ones were the same size. I had the pressure plate flat against the last friction disk with all the bolts torqued down to specs. So I don’t really know what would be causing the problem. Maybe need to bleed the system more? I’m not sure.


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Also it seems like the clutch slips after like 10min is riding. So once the engine is warmed up.


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This may seem like a silly question by what type of oil are you using?
 
No I didn’t mix them up I don’t think. The first friction plate I put on from the kit was the half friction plate. All of the other ones were the same size. I had the pressure plate flat against the last friction disk with all the bolts torqued down to specs. So I don’t really know what would be causing the problem. Maybe need to bleed the system more? I’m not sure.


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Do you have the 15 new along with the half friction plate? You may have to eliminate the half plate and the associated spring?? With that said, I've never had to do a clutch install so this is going off of what I've read, but it's been some time since I read about this and may not be remembering it properly but I hope this helps.
 
Do you have the 15 new along with the half friction plate? You may have to eliminate the half plate and the associated spring?? With that said, I've never had to do a clutch install so this is going off of what I've read, but it's been some time since I read about this and may not be remembering it properly but I hope this helps.



Yea I installed the half friction plate. It was installed by the book (owners manual) just as it was when I removed all of the stock plates and disks. The kit didn’t have any instructions about replacing it with a full size disk. And like I said. I have an extra friction and steel plate. So 17 total. I left each out cause they wouldn’t fit. So I have 15 total installed which is the exact same amount I removed when taking out the old plates. I installed the spring seat and clutch spring onto the base of the spring basket also then the half disk, steel plate, piano wire and then alternating friction disk and steel plate until I ended up with a friction out front. I used the book as well as an older lvlheads vmax into the clutch post for reference.


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This may seem like a silly question by what type of oil are you using?



I mentioned it above in my first post. Shell rotella 15w-40 non synthetic diesel truck oil.


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Also in the manual it says the notches on the plates have to line up with the basket and such. But the barnett friction plates I got in the kit didn’t have any notches on them.....


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I mentioned it above in my first post. Shell rotella 15w-40 non synthetic diesel truck oil.


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Edit: Does not meet JASO spec for ash, but does not contain friction modifiers. Most probably the oil is not the issue, but I prefer to run motorcycle specific oil myself.
 
So ran into a bigger problem here. I pulled everything off again to double check it. And made sure everything was flush and what not. Then when I was tightening one of the springs it just kept spinning. So I took it off and then part of the clutch basket literally just chipped off.....
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You said you got ebay clutch discs? Were they actual Barnett or OEM Yamaha ones? I've had horrible luck with the el cheapo ebay clutch stacks. Usually a problem with the stack height being too short, so they never grab properly and rapidly start slipping/burn out.

Have you flushed and changed the fluid in the clutch master/slave? If it's full of crud or very dirty an orifice could be plugged, preventing fluid from readily returning to the master when the lever is released. Crack the bleeder on the slave for a sec and see if then it works better.

If one of the spring bolts is stripped out I would definitely repair it, don't assume 5/6 is sufficient. Uneven pressure on the plate can cause added strain and torsion when the clutch is thrown out, possibly leading to further issues down the road. If it's just lightly stripped and not hotdog-down-a-hallway blown out, I've had decent luck using the redneck trick of just taking a few strands of copper wire, cramming them in alongside the bolt, and then letting the bolt's threads twist them into new "threads". It sounds very cobjob, and I suppose it is, but it actually works quite well the few times I've had occasion to use it, mainly, didn't want to spend a few hundred for a part on a bike I only paid a few hundred for in the first place.
 
I'm with those who say that your system needs bleeding, at a minimum, or possibly rebuilding of one or more parts, like the clutch master cylinder and/or the slave cylinder.

The worn seals in either the clutch master cylinder or the slave cylinder have allowed air to enter the system. Your changing friction point, where the clutch releases farther and farther out, towards a fully-out clutch lever position is proof of this. That's what I read from your description of what's happening, that the go/no go release of the clutch seems to be 'moving' further away from the handlebar.

You can try to bleed the clutch first, to see if that helps. If it doesn't last, then you have either/or hydraulic components which need to be replaced or rebuilt. For the relatively modest cost, I prefer to replace than rebuild. You may think, "a rebuild kit for maybe $35 vs. a new component for $85-$115? I'm going cheap!" But think about the new part being available. It's a better long-term fix in my book.

Use the 'reverse-bleed' syringe method to remove air from your system, it's faster and easier than drawing fluid down in the traditional fashion,or by using a Mity-vac. Believe me when I say this, it's quicker and easier.

As-said, if your friction point moves outward after you bleed the clutch and use the clutch a bit, you need to repair/replace the master cyl or the slave cyl, and maybe both. Given the years on the bike, I wouldn't be surprised to find that it's the slave cylinder.

BIG CAUTION! When you attempt to remove the clutch slave cylinder, I suggest you buy a new bit or wrench for the screw removal holding the slave cylinder in place. If you bugger that screw, or those screws, you will have a helluva time to remove it! I also suggest the use of a hand impact driver. If you work on bikes, you should have a hand impact driver.

Let's say you have successfully done the slave cylinder removal. If the piston side looks like a bunch of 'dirty snow' crystallized deposits are there (same for the engine case where the slave cyl bolts-on, where the pushrod and rubber seal are), you just found your problem. Your slave cyl needs a rebuild or replacement. This is also time to remove all your brake fluid and replace it with fresh. If the fluid isn't transparent, it needs replacement. All of it.

This is where the 'reverse-flush' works so-well. You push new fluid up, towards the master cyl and also any air bubbles. Trust me when I say that this is the quickest, easiest, most-effective way to do it.

Here's a link to your slave cyl replacement. Lots of pics. Look at the nasty slave cyl! I expect that's what you are going to discover.

http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=45011&highlight=slave+cylinder
 

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They aren't speaking of some arcane, hidden little 'notches,' the tabs on the friction discs obviously have to go into the slots on the clutch basket.


Also in the manual it says the notches on the plates have to line up with the basket and such. But the barnett friction plates I got in the kit didn’t have any notches on them.....


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They aren't speaking of some arcane, hidden little 'notches,' the tabs on the friction discs obviously have to go into the slots on the clutch basket.



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I meant these little notches. The single ones on top and double towards the bottom. Mine don’t have that. It was a Barnett friction and steel plate kit. Has the Barnett box and everything.



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I'm with those who say that your system needs bleeding, at a minimum, or possibly rebuilding of one or more parts, like the clutch master cylinder and/or the slave cylinder.



The worn seals in either the clutch master cylinder or the slave cylinder have allowed air to enter the system. Your changing friction point, where the clutch releases farther and farther out, towards a fully-out clutch lever position is proof of this. That's what I read from your description of what's happening, that the go/no go release of the clutch seems to be 'moving' further away from the handlebar.



You can try to bleed the clutch first, to see if that helps. If it doesn't last, then you have either/or hydraulic components which need to be replaced or rebuilt. For the relatively modest cost, I prefer to replace than rebuild. You may think, "a rebuild kit for maybe $35 vs. a new component for $85-$115? I'm going cheap!" But think about the new part being available. It's a better long-term fix in my book.



Use the 'reverse-bleed' syringe method to remove air from your system, it's faster and easier than drawing fluid down in the traditional fashion,or by using a Mity-vac. Believe me when I say this, it's quicker and easier.



As-said, if your friction point moves outward after you bleed the clutch and use the clutch a bit, you need to repair/replace the master cyl or the slave cyl, and maybe both. Given the years on the bike, I wouldn't be surprised to find that it's the slave cylinder.



BIG CAUTION! When you attempt to remove the clutch slave cylinder, I suggest you buy a new bit or wrench for the screw removal holding the slave cylinder in place. If you bugger that screw, or those screws, you will have a helluva time to remove it! I also suggest the use of a hand impact driver. If you work on bikes, you should have a hand impact driver.



Let's say you have successfully done the slave cylinder removal. If the piston side looks like a bunch of 'dirty snow' crystallized deposits are there (same for the engine case where the slave cyl bolts-on, where the pushrod and rubber seal are), you just found your problem. Your slave cyl needs a rebuild or replacement. This is also time to remove all your brake fluid and replace it with fresh. If the fluid isn't transparent, it needs replacement. All of it.



This is where the 'reverse-flush' works so-well. You push new fluid up, towards the master cyl and also any air bubbles. Trust me when I say that this is the quickest, easiest, most-effective way to do it.



Here's a link to your slave cyl replacement. Lots of pics. Look at the nasty slave cyl! I expect that's what you are going to discover.



http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=45011&highlight=slave+cylinder



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Pulled off the slave cylinder. These pics are what I found. It definitely looks a little cruddy. Do you think this was my problem? Should I clean it up or is this one leaking bad enough to replace?



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