This happened to someone recently

Just got stuck at the Job, trying to come home..

Started her up and heard the pump clicking longer than normal.
Got about 1/4 mile and she died out.. 78 Miles on the tripometer after filling her up a few days ago.. I'm only 6.5 miles from the job. I figured I can fill her up when I get home, since I normally get 99 Miles till the light comes on..

I did have a LONG tiresome trip from NJ to Brooklyn, to put some flowers on my mom's grave. Stop and go traffic almost all the way.. No more that 10 MPH.
Thank GOD it did not fail while in the city or in a tunnel.

Anyways. I checked the fuses.. looks fine.
I did not get any warning light, or pump cut out.. The tank was bone dry.

I'm wondering if the bulb blew out, or is it something more detailed.

Now I cannot trust riding her till I get this resolved.

This really sucks the big one, not having an actual fuel gauge.

Yeah, sounds like a ton of idling time screwed up your overall mileage count. Check that dash panel reserve light bulb and hope for the best (IE- cheapest) outcome! Good luck

Check that dash panel reserve light bulb and hope for the best (IE- cheapest) outcome! Good luck

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Thanks.. I plan to attack it this weekend, weather permitting.
I'm wondering how much of a PITA it is to remove the cluster..

Not really that bad- take the faux tank off and 2- 10mm nuts with washers- don't drop them.

Turn the key on, main switch on, and hit the start button.

Look at the instrument cluster.

The oil light and low fuel light should come on.

If the low fue light comes on, chances are good the sender in the tank is bad.

Look at the bottom of the tank. There is an electrical connector there. Measure ohms and compare your reading to the manual.

If it is bad you need to drain the tank, install a new switch and gasket. There is a drain in the bottom of the tank. You may want to consider a new copper washer for the plug if you remove it


I prefer to siphon as much gas as possible out of the tank before draining it from the bottom. A piece of clear hose 3/8 ID works for me. Once it gets going it does the work for you. Takes awhile with the skinny hose.

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Look at the instrument cluster. The oil light and low fuel light should come on.

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Good call.. I know I cycled the pump a few times, while trying to see what was going on. I really don't remember seeing the red fuel lamp going on.. I'll check again later today. I'm a master at siphoning that tank, from dealing with bad gas, I got from the station a couple years back.

Hopefully its just the bulb.

I wonder, if a high intensity flashing LED with a matching load resistor, replace that dim bulb on the cluster. Maybe pair it with a high dB piezo speaker.

D-Max2012 said:

Just got stuck at the Job, trying to come home..

Started her up and heard the pump clicking longer than normal.
Got about 1/4 mile and she died out.. 78 Miles on the tripometer after filling her up a few days ago.. I'm only 6.5 miles from the job. I figured I can fill her up when I get home, since I normally get 99 Miles till the light comes on..

I did have a LONG tiresome trip from NJ to Brooklyn, to put some flowers on my mom's grave. Stop and go traffic almost all the way.. No more that 10 MPH.
Thank GOD it did not fail while in the city or in a tunnel.

Anyways. I checked the fuses.. looks fine.
I did not get any warning light, or pump cut out.. The tank was bone dry.

I'm wondering if the bulb blew out, or is it something more detailed.

Now I cannot trust riding her till I get this resolved.

This really sucks the big one, not having an actual fuel gauge.

Click to expand...

Is there a chance your switch was on reserve

D-Max2012 said:

Good call.. I know I cycled the pump a few times, while trying to see what was going on. I really don't remember seeing the red fuel lamp going on.. I'll check again later today. I'm a master at siphoning that tank, from dealing with bad gas, I got from the station a couple years back.

Hopefully its just the bulb.

I wonder, if a high intensity flashing LED with a matching load resistor, replace that dim bulb on the cluster. Maybe pair it with a high dB piezo speaker.

Click to expand...

A bright flashing LED would be a great idea. The speaker would be overkill, IMO.

I'm still not comfortable that a burnt-out bulb could be the cause of a rider running out of gas - this just seems like such a hair-brained, ridiculous design - certainly out of character with most Japanese products.
Questions -
-has anyone ever run across Yamaha correspondence, specifically outlining this "design"? If so, could you share?
- has anyone with a working bulb and reserve switch, with a tank nearly empty, removed the bulb to see if the aux. power to the fuel pump is cut?
satisfy my curiosity, Lads.
Cheers!

Is there a chance your switch was on reserve

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Nope.. It was in the RUN position, when it sputtered. I then flipped it to RES to see if I could make it to a gas station. 2 years ago, I split that rubber boot that's surrounding my glass fuel filter,,, then put a velcro strap to around the rubber to keep the dampening functional. I didn't like the fact that I needed to unplug the fuel line, just to view my filter. It was bone dry..

A bright flashing LED would be a great idea. The speaker would be overkill, IMO.

Click to expand...

The only reason I mentioned the piezo speaker is this.. While riding in a busy area, we are concentrating on how not to get killed :bang head:. The time it takes to look down and notice, even a flashing LED, may be the difference between getting home safe or not.. Also, since we're all tuned to knowing what our own bike sounds and feels like normally, some strange noise would get our attention quickly.

has anyone with a working bulb and reserve switch, with a tank nearly empty, removed the bulb to see if the aux. power to the fuel pump is cut?

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That would be a great test to the functionality of this circuit.
I don't think the power is cut to the fuel pump if the bulb is out..
I think it disables the relay that's tied in with the sender, basically keeping the pump running, even when the sender has no fuel to cover it up.
(I think it works by a thermo-resistor).
When there is no fuel to keep it cool, it warms up, and changes it value, tripping the relay to turn on the bulb, and shunt (disable), the fuel pump.
The reserve switch bypasses the shunt to feed power back to the fuel pump, but the light remains energized.

D-Max2012 said:

Nope.. It was in the RUN position, when it sputtered. I then flipped it to RES to see if I could make it to a gas station. 2 years ago, I split that rubber boot that's surrounding my glass fuel filter,,, then put a velcro strap to around the rubber to keep the dampening functional. I didn't like the fact that I needed to unplug the fuel line, just to view my filter. It was bone dry..



The only reason I mentioned the piezo speaker is this.. While riding in a busy area, we are concentrating on how not to get killed :bang head:. The time it takes to look down and notice, even a flashing LED, may be the difference between getting home safe or not.. Also, since we're all tuned to knowing what our own bike sounds and feels like normally, some strange noise would get our attention quickly.

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I've mentioned this a few times before, but I always let my bike warm up with the fuel switch in the reserve position, regardless of the amount of gas in the tank.
At least this way I know that the aux. system is working, before starting out. Still no guarantee that it won't fail along the way.
Good point about the speaker. I've forgotten how difficult it is to see the fuel light, especially in bright sunlight. I got around that problem years ago, by incorporating all the warning lights in a dashboard, that surrounds the speedo. Now when any of them light up, I can't help but notice .
Also, the in-your-face flashing yellow, when a turn signal is on, prevents me from riding on for many, many kilometers, with a signal merrily flashing away.
You may not have this problem. It's a senior thing :biglaugh:
Cheers!

D-Max2012; That would be a great test to the functionality of this circuit. [B said:

I don't think the power is cut to the fuel pump if the bulb is out.. [/B]
I think it disables the relay that's tied in with the sender, basically keeping the pump running, even when the sender has no fuel to cover it up.
(I think it works by a thermo-resistor).
When there is no fuel to keep it cool, it warms up, and changes it value, tripping the relay to turn on the bulb, and shunt (disable), the fuel pump.
The reserve switch bypasses the shunt to feed power back to the fuel pump, but the light remains energized.

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Great explanation, makes a lot of sense.
But there are a good number of people that believe a bad bulb will indeed disable the reserve circuit. This is why we need documentation, or testing.
The truth is out there.
Cheers!

Hondas had a beeper on the turn signals back in the '70s...

Could it be??
A little tiny filament, inside a bulb, can leave you stranded on the side of the road??
Something's not right with that scenario.. LOL!!

I'm going to look into building a better warning system.

I found the stock bulb on Boats.net.
42X-83517-00-00 BULB,METER 14V3W

12v @ 3W generates a .25amp draw with 48 ohms of resistance..
14v (bulb rating) @ 4.08W generates a .29amp draw with 48 ohms of resistance.

So to setup a High Intensity Flashing LED, I would need to mimic the current draw at the working stage of the LED and Piezo Speaker, in order to trick the relay into thinking the stock bulb is still in place.

I'm pretty-sure that the 1960's Ducatis had an electrical system that routed continuity for the ignition primary circuit through a bulb filament somehow, and that if the filament didn't have continuity, there-went your ignition.

D-Max2012 said:

Could it be??
A little tiny filament, inside a bulb, can leave you stranded on the side of the road??
Something's not right with that scenario.. LOL!!

I'm going to look into building a better warning system.

I found the stock bulb on Boats.net.
42X-83517-00-00 BULB,METER 14V3W

12v @ 3W generates a .25amp draw with 48 ohms of resistance..
14v (bulb rating) @ 4.08W generates a .29amp draw with 48 ohms of resistance.

So to setup a High Intensity Flashing LED, I would need to mimic the current draw at the working stage of the LED and Piezo Speaker, in order to trick the relay into thinking the stock bulb is still in place.

Click to expand...

I'm pretty-sure that the 1960's Ducatis had an electrical system that routed continuity for the ignition primary circuit through a bulb filament somehow, and that if the filament didn't have continuity, there-went your ignition.

Click to expand...

SAY WHAT??
WHAT KIND OF TOM-FOOLERY IS THAT???



Well, I decided to dig into the cluster tonight. Its not the bulb..
Swapped it into the high beam socket.. Also noticed that only the neutral light, illuminates when I turn the key,, but when I press the start button, the fuel, oil level and neutral lights up.. When I release the button, only the neutral stays lit..

What lights up on yours and when? I see this each time I take a ride, but did not pay attention to the sequence..

Now I have to figure out, why it did not light when the fuel was low.. Also, the pump was still running.

What's the symptoms of a bad sender unit???

Yeah, it sounds unbelievable, but since I never owned one, I didn't have to deal w/that. It may have been the headlight, but about that I'm not sure.

I did like the single-cyl Ducatis though, the 250/350/450 series was known for their stout, reliable engines, the electrical systems, no.

Your light sequence sounds correct to me

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D-Max2012 said:

SAY WHAT??
WHAT KIND OF TOM-FOOLERY IS THAT???



Well, I decided to dig into the cluster tonight. Its not the bulb..
Swapped it into the high beam socket.. Also noticed that only the neutral light, illuminates when I turn the key,, but when I press the start button, the fuel, oil level and neutral lights up.. When I release the button, only the neutral stays lit..

What lights up on yours and when? I see this each time I take a ride, but did not pay attention to the sequence..

Now I have to figure out, why it did not light when the fuel was low.. Also, the pump was still running.

What's the symptoms of a bad sender unit???

Click to expand...

The fuel light and oil light light up on my bike, like yours, when the start button is pressed.
That is design, as a test to make sure the bulbs are good. I believe it is outlined in the manual that comes with the bike.
But getting back to your problem - you now know the oil lightbulb was good, but did you do a test with no bulb in place, to see if the pump still ran while in the reserve position? If so, we can put to bed the rumor that a bad bulb will cause the pump to stop running.
Maybe even better, do the test with a bulb with a known blown filament. That would better simulate an actual riding event.
Cheers!

you now know the oil light bulb was good, but did you do a test with no bulb in place, to see if the pump still ran while in the reserve position? If so, we can put to bed the rumor that a bad bulb will cause the pump to stop running.

Click to expand...

Since I now know that the bulb is good. I now have to look into why the bulb did not light up, and why the pump kept running in any position (RUN or RES). If the values are within specs for my sender,,, I'll have to look at the relay.


I have an extra sender unit which has a crack in it, but the resistance value looks OK.. I have to test the one in the bike this weekend. In order to get the correct readings, I need to drain the tank.

A correct test would be to have a 100% working system, being low on fuel and then pull the bulb to see if the pump gets disabled, but I doubt if anyone is looking to disrupt their bike for this test.

Once I get my bike working again, i can run this test.. I'm interested also..

When i look the circuit board, the bulb is serial connected with the relay (Green wire).
All we have to know is :

-Does the current come from the Relay, goes in the green wire and finally in the thermistor. If yes a toasted bulb doesn't change anything.
-Does the current come from the bulb, goes int the green wire toward the relay. If yes a toasted bulb keeps the pump running.