50 new HD models in 5 years

caseyjones955 · Feb 24, 2017

http://www.kotatv.com/content/news/...ous-plan-to-capture-new-riders-414669773.html

Interesting short read. If I'm not mistaken all current HD models are based on one of four different platforms. I wonder what "new model" means? How much R&D can be afforded to even one new model in 5 years. I think of a new model as a new platform with a new or highly revamped engine. In the case of the very vulnerable narrow angle twin, lets just say completely new. The Vrod could be considered a new model, but not a Road King, lowered with a new color, or God help us, another fucking bagger.

HD seems awful heavy on marketing and light on R&D. This is a motor company that just tried to push off a 4-valve pushrod engine as their latest and greatest masterpiece. With the same excellent marketing they have always had, they might just get away with it but I'm not sure younger buyers are going to be taken in by this. So here are a couple questions I really want to see answers too. Does anyone know anything about any of this?

Does HD have some fresh blood, are we really looking at some genuinely new models, sure not 50 in 5, but maybe a couple truly new offerings for younger buyers that might otherwise buy a reasonably priced, sexy, modern and ultra-capable model from Japan, Europe or even our very own Polaris?

Is this just publicity to stave off the bitter inevitable end of a manufacturer that has just fallen too far behind the curve for too long?

Fire-medic · Feb 24, 2017

Regardless of what HD does they have a worldwide world-class reputation. Why mess with success? No their forte isn't cutting-edge bikes because it doesn't have to be. Remember Mercedes won the Indy 500 with a pushrod engine. I would like to see better ground clearance on the Softail but they will continue to sell at the top of the market until we all have nanny-bikes that we don't steer.

Fifty new models is a big undertaking obviously but I expect it to be incremental and not all-new.

Itgoes · Feb 24, 2017

caseyjones955 said:
http://www.kotatv.com/content/news/...ous-plan-to-capture-new-riders-414669773.html

Interesting short read. If I'm not mistaken all current HD models are based on one of four different platforms. I wonder what "new model" means? How much R&D can be afforded to even one new model in 5 years. I think of a new model as a new platform with a new or highly revamped engine. In the case of the very vulnerable narrow angle twin, lets just say completely new. The Vrod could be considered a new model, but not a Road King, lowered with a new color, or God help us, another fucking bagger.

HD seems awful heavy on marketing and light on R&D. This is a motor company that just tried to push off a 4-valve pushrod engine as their latest and greatest masterpiece. With the same excellent marketing they have always had, they might just get away with it but I'm not sure younger buyers are going to be taken in by this. So here are a couple questions I really want to see answers too. Does anyone know anything about any of this?

Does HD have some fresh blood, are we really looking at some genuinely new models, sure not 50 in 5, but maybe a couple truly new offerings for younger buyers that might otherwise buy a reasonably priced, sexy, modern and ultra-capable model from Japan, Europe or even our very own Polaris?

Is this just publicity to stave off the bitter inevitable end of a manufacturer that has just fallen too far behind the curve for too long?

I have a friend who owned every single Harley model made, at the same time.

He was on the cover of one of the Harley Magazines at the time with all the bikes.

Of course this was back in the late 70's I believe, it was the same time they put out their cafe racer.....he had 2 of those. They didn't have many models back then.

Point being they haven't really changed much. They still only have several models that they dress up a bunch of different ways.

It fools some people. :biglaugh:

maxcruiser · Feb 24, 2017

50 new in 5 years is a marketing scheme - they won't be all new bikes, but rather redesigns, etc....

Unfortunately, Harley has not had much luck introducing new models. The v-rod is a great bike but doesn't sell well. The 500 & 750 models have had a terrible start in sales in North America.

I was taking to the local HD dealer a couple days ago and they have not sold one of the 500 or 750s and they told me that these bikes will be discontinued for the Canadian market.

I, for one, would love to see them succeed for many years to come, but time will tell.

Mike

caseyjones955 · Feb 24, 2017

I'm in agreement with the very subjective definition of "new model". I know what HD is doing has worked for a long time but we're entering a new era, younger buyers have access to some pretty amazing machines at attainable prices. Putting a nice stereo and great paint on an stodgy obsolete slug isnt going to take them into the future. This generation, the guys just now getting their motorcycle endorsements, they are the ones HD needs to impress. I really dont believe they have the goods to do it, even those still wanting a narrow angle twin have Polaris offering a quality modern bike that has benefited from robust R&D. Even Hinkley Triumphs are damn decent bikes.

I think I can call this now. New models will be color/paint schemes, blacking out, graphics, maybe Polk sound packages, whitewalls, rebooting some aged design by bolting a springer front end to it and calling it Heritage something or other. I'm only sayin' that unless they are hiding an ultra-light MPFI V6 and a suitable aluminum cradle frame or something of equal significance they will probably be history before my son is my age. I think this is the beginning of the end right here. The motorcycle that Harley Davidson must build is not the bike they are currently building.

brad bruggeman · Feb 24, 2017

What is making HD so successful is that they are selling an image not a motorcycle. The cloths,what they think is a BAD ASS look,the sound of the bike.It's an image thing.Lord knows the bikes are nothing to brag about.Todays HD might have been great back in the 70's but not with today's technology.I just don't understand why people think thier HD is so awesome when they are the SLOWEST bikes on the road?

sdt354 · Feb 25, 2017

I personally see no reason to ever buy a newer H.D. If I were to acquire one, it would be an older model. Pre-1970. I still like the old Pan-heads. And, if an unmolested knuckle head were ever in front of me for sale, I'd no doubt be interested.

caseyjones955 · Feb 25, 2017

My first was a 59 Pan. Nearly daily valve and chain adjustments if I was on the road. Terrible bike but wish I still had it. I brought it home from a garage sale in a series of boxes that filled my trunk and back seat.

Fire-medic · Feb 25, 2017

First, don't look-down on all those other AMF bikes, up to 1985 I think they were still selling Shovelheads, and '84 was I believe the Evolution Era beginning. You're leaving out fifteen years of the same thing (as the 'pre-1970'), Shovelheads, and Iron-Barrel Sportsters.

Second, have you been keeping abreast of the Knucklehead prices? Finding an unmolested example is very difficult, and you probably won't want to pay what people are asking for them. Stupid money, and probably needing a complete $$$$ overhaul. Then, constant maintenance, from what my friend who is an independent H-D mechanic, working for himself, will tell you. He's retired as a Ford line mechanic, and now rides a H-D EVO dresser trike so he doesn't have to worry about holding up two wheels at a traffic light.

Go check-out jockeyjournal.com for info on the world of Knuckleheads, Panheads, Shovelheads, and Flatheads. The people posting on there are really-into the chopper idiom, not so-much original unaltered bikes.

sdt354 said:
I personally see no reason to ever buy a newer H.D. If I were to acquire one, it would be an older model. Pre-1970. I still like the old Pan-heads. And, if an unmolested knuckle head were ever in front of me for sale, I'd no doubt be interested.

sdt354 · Feb 26, 2017

Fire-medic said:
First, don't look-down on all those other AMF bikes, up to 1985 I think they were still selling Shovelheads, and '84 was I believe the Evolution Era beginning. You're leaving out fifteen years of the same thing (as the 'pre-1970'), Shovelheads, and Iron-Barrel Sportsters.

Second, have you been keeping abreast of the Knucklehead prices? Finding an unmolested example is very difficult, and you probably won't want to pay what people are asking for them. Stupid money, and probably needing a complete $$$$ overhaul. Then, constant maintenance, from what my friend who is an independent H-D mechanic, working for himself, will tell you. He's retired as a Ford line mechanic, and now rides a H-D EVO dresser trike so he doesn't have to worry about holding up two wheels at a traffic light.

Go check-out jockeyjournal.com for info on the world of Knuckleheads, Panheads, Shovelheads, and Flatheads. The people posting on there are really-into the chopper idiom, not so-much original unaltered bikes.

They sure aren't giving them away(knuckles), and an unmolested is rarely found anymore. My friend Tom seldom rides his anymore, but won't sell it either. It's maintained and cared for though. Buying one would be an investment. The time to buy one reasonable,passed decades ago, around here, and everywhere else I'm sure.

Fire-medic · Feb 26, 2017

I had a friend who years-ago wanted me to buy a stock 1951 Panhead he had unearthed, but I was into the KZ1000's at the time, I had 3 at once... . I'm not a collector of the H-D's but I do like the styles and the interchangeability.

The same guy found a 1981 CBX, I could have bought it for $2K, many years ago. It had some miles on it, but it ran flawlessly. I rode it across the state from Miami to Ft. Myers/Naples and back. What a sound! It had an exhaust note like a Porsche flat-six air-cooled engine. I was saving my $ at the time, and ended up awhile later buying a year-old FZR1000 from another friend w/2K on the odometer. I still have it.

Locally, I don't see many of the metric 500/750 CC twins from H-D on the roads, but especially as we approach Daytona Bike Week, we see increasing numbers of H-D's locally, a lot of them are taking trips to the Florida Keys. Plenty of Quebec license plates. Evidently backwards baseball caps provide adequate crash protection for these H-D guys, as that seems to be the headwear while underway for their tetes.

caseyjones955 · Feb 26, 2017

Fire-medic said:
I had a friend who years-ago wanted me to buy a stock 1951 Panhead he had unearthed, but I was into the KZ1000's at the time, I had 3 at once... . I'm not a collector of the H-D's but I do like the styles and the interchangeability.

The same guy found a 1981 CBX, I could have bought it for $2K, many years ago. It had some miles on it, but it ran flawlessly. I rode it across the state from Miami to Ft. Myers/Naples and back. What a sound! It had an exhaust note like a Porsche flat-six air-cooled engine. I was saving my $ at the time, and ended up awhile later buying a year-old FZR1000 from another friend w/2K on the odometer. I still have it.

Locally, I don't see many of the metric 500/750 CC twins from H-D on the roads, but especially as we approach Daytona Bike Week, we see increasing numbers of H-D's locally, a lot of them are taking trips to the Florida Keys. Plenty of Quebec license plates. Evidently backwards baseball caps provide adequate crash protection for these H-D guys, as that seems to be the headwear while underway for their tetes.

A backwards hat is indeed adequate, but from what I see around Sturgis o'clock is that a dew rag with a skull or flames embossed on it is also more than sufficient. Throw in some metro-friendly white frame sunglasses, Sturgis T shirt and flip-flips and there is no way you can get hurt.

I would have had a hard time turning down that CBX, those are pretty special and how often do we see them on the road. Here, it's even more rare than a Vmax.

redneksoldier · Feb 27, 2017

sdt354 said:
I personally see no reason to ever buy a newer H.D. If I were to acquire one, it would be an older model. Pre-1970. I still like the old Pan-heads. And, if an unmolested knuckle head were ever in front of me for sale, I'd no doubt be interested.

I agree completely. I was just in a local HD dealership picking up some parts for a 77 Ironhead that im currently restoring. It was the first time in a lot of years that I visited any HD dealer. I was checking out the new models on one isle, got to the end and proceeded to the next isle. I couldnt even tell that I had gone into the used bike section. They all looked the same and some were 10+ years old.

My dad was a HD mechanic and custom builder, so I really do like HD's having grown up on them and in the culture of real old school customs and classic stockers. The ol' man was really partial to Panheads and always had at least one. His nicname was "Panhead Ted" to everyone that knew him. We built a bunch of em together. When I was 12 (in 1994), we built a really nice '57 to enter into a local show. Original style points ignition, kick start, 96" S&S kit in the motor, etc etc. We put it in the show and won people's choice. Afterward, while we were taking pictures, he handed me the key and said "You built it, it's yours." It was not my first street bike. I had a old, ratty CB750 and a nighthawk that I rode around. But it was my first really nice street bike. So many good memories on them things! Heres a pic of that day...

The mongrel · Feb 27, 2017

I wonder if you guys get as many 'harley dudes' as we do in england?

I reckon a good 60% of harley owners here have to wear at least one item of harley merch at all times.
39% have to wear about four items (minimum) at all times....hat, jacket, T-shirt, boots, sunnglasses, rings ect

Then theres the 1% that just treat having a harley as they would having any other brand

tothemax93 · Feb 27, 2017

The mongrel said:
I wonder if you guys get as many 'harley dudes' as we do in england?

I reckon a good 60% of harley owners here have to wear at least one item of harley merch at all times.
39% have to wear about four items (minimum) at all times....hat, jacket, T-shirt, boots, sunnglasses, rings ect

Then theres the 1% that just treat having a harley as they would having any other brand

That's a good assessment for here in the states. I can't hardly go out in public, and not see some sort of Harley gear.

sdt354 · Feb 27, 2017

redneksoldier said:
I agree completely. I was just in a local HD dealership picking up some parts for a 77 Ironhead that im currently restoring. It was the first time in a lot of years that I visited any HD dealer. I was checking out the new models on one isle, got to the end and proceeded to the next isle. I couldnt even tell that I had gone into the used bike section. They all looked the same and some were 10+ years old.

My dad was a HD mechanic and custom builder, so I really do like HD's having grown up on them and in the culture of real old school customs and classic stockers. The ol' man was really partial to Panheads and always had at least one. His nicname was "Panhead Ted" to everyone that knew him. We built a bunch of em together. When I was 12 (in 1994), we built a really nice '57 to enter into a local show. Original style points ignition, kick start, 96" S&S kit in the motor, etc etc. We put it in the show and won people's choice. Afterward, while we were taking pictures, he handed me the key and said "You built it, it's yours." It was not my first street bike. I had a old, ratty CB750 and a nighthawk that I rode around. But it was my first really nice street bike. So many good memories on them things! Heres a pic of that day...

Tks for posting, very nice.

caseyjones955 · Feb 27, 2017

I've been stumbling upon this one for a long time. Even though I have moved away from HD it does bring me back to a different time. If I had to own another HD one like this would be it.

I feel like hes priced a bit high or someone would have snapped it up by now but I also think that most of todays HD owners have never seen a kick start and would probably be unable to bring it to life.

Its cool to see one so complete and not bobbed or chopped. I hope it finds a good home.

https://rapidcity.craigslist.org/mcy/5974720705.html

liptoss · Feb 27, 2017

Polaris, in regards to Victory, is done now. They just didn't have the jam to play with the HD marketing machine. Victory, did anyone notice, the Sean Ken mirrors circa. 1980's Viragos and V-Maxs being used on them? Come on Polaris, you can't put old style mirrors and other such as turn signals and think you're going to play with the big boys and charge a premium price? NOW, Indian on the other hand is poised to take a run at HD for certain. But we will see.
Maybe that's why HD is now considering such statements and marketing efforts to hedge it's market share.
HD is like Apple computers. A loyal following to the death.
No matter...
I just keep telling myself the one truth... Harleys are Cool... but the VMAX rules!

Nubicon · Feb 27, 2017

liptoss said:
Polaris, in regards to Victory, is done now. They just didn't have the jam to play with the HD marketing machine. Victory, did anyone notice, the Sean Ken mirrors circa. 1980's Viragos and V-Maxs being used on them? Come on Polaris, you can't put old style mirrors and other such as turn signals and think you're going to play with the big boys and charge a premium price? NOW, Indian on the other hand is poised to take a run at HD for certain. But we will see.
Maybe that's why HD is now considering such statements and marketing efforts to hedge it's market share.
HD is like Apple computers. A loyal following to the death.
No matter...
I just keep telling myself the one truth... Harleys are Cool... but the VMAX rules!

Polaris got rid of Victory because they are aiming to ride Indian's heritage into profitability. They were cannibalizing their own market by offering two brands of cruiser with little diversity, and by all accounts Victory was barely making it.

I'm sad to see them go because Victory made such a high quality product. Here's to hoping that Polaris can capitalize on Indian's racing heritage and expand the line into a few platforms.

Fire-medic · Feb 28, 2017

The Octane was probably the Polaris brand's best chance to make it, style, performance, and price, in a 1200 cc V-twin. It appears to be a case of 'too-little, too-late' for the parent company. They did the best possible thing they could have done, they co-opted the cruiser idiom by purchasing a heritage brand that had name recognition, and they invested their experience in building Victories into the new Indian brand.

Yes, they folded their tent (Victory) and have staked their economic success on Indian. I believe Indian will succeed where Victory did not. Indian will become a mix of both nostalgia and performance, and their participation in flattrack will help to propel them to success.

I met the attorney who was the receiver for the Indian brand, and he oversaw the purchase by Polaris. I've posted previously about his work, and his website is a treasure-trove of information about the Indian name brand. A very interesting read if you are interested in the subject.

Nubicon said:
Polaris got rid of Victory because they are aiming to ride Indian's heritage into profitability. They were cannibalizing their own market by offering two brands of cruiser with little diversity, and by all accounts Victory was barely making it.

I'm sad to see them go because Victory made such a high quality product. Here's to hoping that Polaris can capitalize on Indian's racing heritage and expand the line into a few platforms.

50 new HD models in 5 years

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