Second Ignitech Aftermarket TCI group buy

dingy · Jan 8, 2012

I have had some members express interest in getting an Ignitech TCI.

I did the first one in August 2011 and 6 members participated in it here. I have not had any issues with them reported to me. If any of the guys that got them would like to post their experience with the TCI, it may help others decide if this is for them. I have ran this TCI for 2 years now and is works perfectly.

I am planning on ordering TCI's the last week of January. That is to give anyone interested in doing this time to get funds together after the holiday season.

Cost is $250 including USPS Priority shipping to US addresses. I will send anywhere, but shipping will be more. Due to Paypal fees of 2.9% there will be an added $7.25 for Paypal payments. Checks or money orders would be fine. Last time I took Paypal payments as 'Personal' transactions, but Paypal is shutting some peoples accounts down for this practice.

Payment will be need in advance, same as last time.

Attached below is a PDF of install instructions I provided & a couple of pictures of TCI. The MAP sensor will be connected to TCI with one connector on it at the MAP sensor itself.

You will get following:

Pre programmed new, version 80 Ignitech module (warranty by Ignitech)

A revised program that is much better than what Ignitech is supplying.

Adapter harness for either a 1985-1989 VMax or a 1990-2007 VMax, plug & play & matching program in TCI. Spare terminals for the TCI end connector. Also furnished are replacement ends for the VMax harness connectors & terminals. These are only needed if your harness end connectors are corroded.

A new 1 bar GM MAP sensor and wiring connector properly connected to Ignitech harness. Wires will be 24" long and heat shrink covered. The stock vacuum sensor on the bike is not desirable for use on this TCI due to it being 12v based and it is prone to failure due to its age.

All documentation and original files from Ignitech along with any useful info I have collected on a CD.

Marine grade Velcro to attach TCI & MAP sensor. And alcohol swabs to clean mounting surfaces.

Small tube of dielectric grease.

24" of 3/16" vacuum hose to connect to MAP sensor.

15 wire zip ties in 3 different sizes.

All TCI's for the 1985-1989 will be tested for operation on my bike. I cannot start the 1990-2007 TCI's due to pick up coil differences, but I can program module.

An optional item is a 6' long USB to COM cable to allow the TCI to be hooked up to a laptop that does not have a Com port. This is $15.00 additional. Not needed if you are not interested in tweaking the programming of TCI.

Previous group buy thread is at link below.

http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=19307

If interested, post here or PM me.

Gary

RaWarrior · Jan 8, 2012

This has definitely got my interest, I shyed out the first time since I wasn't really clear on what the benefits were, but after reading through the Venture forum thread, I think I understand it a lot better.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what I took away from it...
-Ignition advance and other parameters are programmable thru laptop
-Adds a rev limiter
-Can cut ignition for first few revs to clear out cylinders
-Dwell adjustment(and info on what the setting should be for stock coils vs COPs?)
-Clutch ignition interrupt for power-shifting. I imagine you could adjust the clutch switch so just a slight fan would be enough to trip the switch without actually slipping the clutch, thus allowing the full-throttle easy shifts.
-overall newer technology, should be more reliable
-and plug-n-play installation

For $250 this seems like a great deal. If I sell these couple snowblowers I bought on the cheap and fixed, I'll have a nice wad of disposable cash I can throw at my Max.

dingy · Jan 8, 2012

That is most of the good stuff.

I am still working on hooking the VBoost to it. I think it is doable. If it is, then there is a 10 point curve that can be set to open VBoost incrementally based on RPM range. The output on the Ignitech unit is designed to reun an Exhaust servo motor such as the Yamaha EXUP. I recently bought a EXUP servo motor and have found out the motor parameters are the same as the gerard motor that powers the VBoost. With this info, I feel safe in hooking the gerard motor up to the TCI outputs and eliminating the stock VBoost controller. The TCI also has thr feedback circuit inputs for positional controll of the gerard motor.

I have not tried this yet, but am confident it can be made to work. I don't know if hooking up the servo motor can be made 'plug & play' though. It is going to take some wire splicining unless I can find a source for the round connector on the servo motor.

The initial cut ignition when cranking is programmable from 0-40 revs.

Gary

RaWarrior · Jan 8, 2012

I wouldn't mind having to cut/splice a few wires to get the v-boost hooked back up, just as long as it would be doable. For stage7 bikes or others who have eliminated v-boost I guess it wouldn't matter, but for stock bikes losing the v-boost is losing what, like 15% of your top end power? Otherwise you'd have to go with the bicycle-brake lever boost, which I'd rather not.

I'll stay tuned on this.....

wildweasel_pt · Jan 8, 2012

Good job Gary. When i bust one of my controllers i know where to go...

MagnaVMax · Jan 8, 2012

Is this mod similar to the Dyna 3000 (or whatever it is)?

Would this be good for a vmax with 1300 motor conversion, Stage 7, and Kerker exhaust with 2.5 inch comp baffle???

Also would this be an effective mod if i want to do work such as top end work such as more aggressive cams, porting and polishing, valve jobs and things along those lines?

dingy · Jan 8, 2012

MagnaVMax said:
Is this mod similar to the Dyna 3000 (or whatever it is)?

Would this be good for a vmax with 1300 motor conversion, Stage 7, and Kerker exhaust with 2.5 inch comp baffle???

Also would this be an effective mod if i want to do work such as top end work such as more aggressive cams, porting and polishing, valve jobs and things along those lines?

From what I know of the Dyna 3000 unit, it has 8 programmed curves in it that are user selectable.

The Ignitech is 100% programmable, so in essence, it has an infinite amount of curve possibilities. These curves can be tweaked via a PC/laptop connection to whatever performence add ins have been installed. Reprogramming is extremely easy via com cable attaced to TCI, so it could be reprogrammed in a couple of minutes while setting on a Dyno for instance. It CAN'T be reprogrammed while motor is running. The PC/laptop will give real time visual feedback as to as to the advance curve reaction to vacuum & RPM changes.

Also it will work on a single pick up coil or a 4 pick up coil motor. This is accomplished via the short adapter cable that interfaces from TCI to wiring harness & the program loaded into TCI. The Dyna 3000 is no longer available for the 4 pickup coil motors.

Gary

MagnaVMax · Jan 8, 2012

Well in that case i think i will probably be interested in doing this deal. I'll let you know for sure in a few days.

bazwell · Jan 8, 2012

I really like the sound of this unit!
I have set my heart on saving up for a full exhaust, but this unit sounds exactly like what I would like to have.
I have to stay focused on the exhaust.

satariel666 · Jan 9, 2012

dingy said:
That is most of the good stuff.

I am still working on hooking the VBoost to it. I think it is doable. If it is, then there is a 10 point curve that can be set to open VBoost incrementally based on RPM range. The output on the Ignitech unit is designed to reun an Exhaust servo motor such as the Yamaha EXUP. I recently bought a EXUP servo motor and have found out the motor parameters are the same as the gerard motor that powers the VBoost. With this info, I feel safe in hooking the gerard motor up to the TCI outputs and eliminating the stock VBoost controller. The TCI also has thr feedback circuit inputs for positional controll of the gerard motor.

I have not tried this yet, but am confident it can be made to work. I don't know if hooking up the servo motor can be made 'plug & play' though. It is going to take some wire splicining unless I can find a source for the round connector on the servo motor.

The initial cut ignition when cranking is programmable from 0-40 revs.

Gary

Still not worky? I think its easy but require some work.
You just need a 5v to 12v converter.

Of course you can hook a servo motor to ignitech but, you will need
to use it with transmission(planetary for example) and you will need a 12v motor with driver also for 12v wich is almost impossible.
Also it will be expensive.

Only option you have left here is to match a motor from EXUP or any other automotive servo motor with similar application.
But again this could not work properly.

dingy · Jan 9, 2012

I am going to pursue the possibility that the gerard/servo motor can be driven directly from the Ignitech TCI servo motor output terminals.

I have an EXUP servo motor which is what the TCI is designed to drive. The motor is almost identical to the VBoost motor. It has the same power characteristics? when driven at 5vdc and 12vdc. Travel time and power draw are similar.

TCI also has the feedback loop input terminals for position sensing of the servo motor via the servo's potentiometer.

Ignitech says this will work, I had asked them about it early last year. I didn't try it at that time though due to health issue with my back.

If this does function correctly, it would allow the elimination of the stock VBoost controller & have the TCI control the VBoost butterflies with a variable rate opening curve. It could be programed also to operate the same as it does now as well.

Gary

wildweasel_pt · Jan 9, 2012

Have you considered RC servo motors? There are some heavy duty/watersealed ones cheap that i considered when i had an idea of doing a throttle by wire to the new FCR rack that i have on the shelf instead of making linkages between carbs for the throttle cables.

satariel666 · Jan 9, 2012

dingy said:
I am going to pursue the possibility that the gerard/servo motor can be driven directly from the Ignitech TCI servo motor output terminals.

I have an EXUP servo motor which is what the TCI is designed to drive. The motor is almost identical to the VBoost motor. It has the same power characteristics’ when driven at 5vdc and 12vdc. Travel time and power draw are similar.

TCI also has the feedback loop input terminals for position sensing of the servo motor via the servo's potentiometer.

Ignitech says this will work, I had asked them about it early last year. I didn't try it at that time though due to health issue with my back.

If this does function correctly, it would allow the elimination of the stock VBoost controller & have the TCI control the VBoost butterflies with a variable rate opening curve. It could be programed also to operate the same as it does now as well.

Gary

Of course but again, buy the sevo, fabricate the bracket, diffrent linkage?
Another 100$?

Im not saying you are picking the wrong quest but I would rather try with stock servo.

You may also try some secondary butterflies motors from motorcycle throttle bodies.
Early gsxr 600 used an inductive 0-5V motor which consumes no more then 1A.
It has mechanical end ajusters.

Later TB's use to run with stepper motors but this is not suitable for v-boost cuz theres no position meter(encoder, potentiometer).

RMSVMAX · Jan 9, 2012

satariel666 said:
"Of course but again, buy the sevo, fabricate the bracket, diffrent linkage?
Another 100$?"

"Im not saying you are picking the wrong quest but I would rather try with stock servo."

The way I read it, I think he's saying since the EXUP motor & the VMAX servo are virtually the same, the unit should be able to drive the stock servo...

Am I reading it right...???

We are interested in buying these units in stocking quantities,

(# of units would depend on pricing, of course)

particularly for the 85-89 models, if they are 'Plug 'N' Play', & especially if the VBoost controler can be replaced at the same time...

(kinda tired of fixing/upgrading the old boxes anyway, & this seems like a much better alternative!)

Please e-mail details to:
[email protected]
or call:
610-509-VMAX(8629)

& Thank You for all of your time/effort on this!

dingy · Jan 9, 2012

I am hoping the stock VBoost motor can be used. I am not sure at this point. The ability to use the Ignitech to control the VBoost would be a great benefit, but it should not detract from the other good features the TCI has if it is not easily done.

EXUP motor has a lower ohm reading across power wires than the VBosst motor does. 7.6 ohms EXUP & 29.6 ohms for the VBoost. When either motor is driven at 5vdc it takes about 3 seconds to rotate pulley fully. When driven at 12vdc both motors cycle pulley in about 1 second.

The first 5 pictures below are of the VBoost unit on left and the EXUP unit on the right. I didn't open up the gear box side for these pictures, but I have opened both up before & they are very similar in gearing. I am going to take both to work tomorrow and run some current draw comparisons between the two units. I have a lot of lab facilities available for electrical testing. My day job is a mechanical design engineer in the R&D development section of an electrical sensor manufacturer.

The two screen shots from the TCIP4 software show 1st a similar to stock setup for the servo parameters. Second screen shows a test setup that I am going to try. It is setup to trigger servo motor at a lower RPM than would be used on the road. I am going to try this setup on my bike in garage so I can observe the reaction of the servo motor on my Venture.

Last picture shows all the goodies I have so I can wire up my Ignitech TCIP4 unit to try this. I still have a Ignitech Racer 3 unit that is N2O capable for a backup if this doesn't go well. Plus I am in northern Ohio & riding season is over for about 4 months as well. FYI the MAP sensor on the left TCI is different from one that will come with any orders. This is my original aftermarket MAP sensor, never needed to put new one in I have for it.

This testing may take till this weekend to accomplish. I still have to work for a living.

Gary

bazwell · Jan 10, 2012

Heck. Those 2 are close aren't they?
I guess the different motors with different resistances will mean a different current draw. If the controller can handle it, you have found a bloody big winner there!

Impressive stuff! :eusa_dance:

satariel666 · Jan 10, 2012

RMSVMAX said:
The way I read it, I think he's saying since the EXUP motor & the VMAX servo are virtually the same, the unit should be able to drive the stock servo...

Am I reading it right...???

We are interested in buying these units in stocking quantities,

(# of units would depend on pricing, of course)

particularly for the 85-89 models, if they are 'Plug 'N' Play', & especially if the VBoost controler can be replaced at the same time...

(kinda tired of fixing/upgrading the old boxes anyway, & this seems like a much better alternative!!

They are not the same, nither dimensions nor electrical - thay are similar.
Or maybe theres one exup motor I havent seen yet?

You are not reading right.

dingy · Jan 14, 2012

satariel666 said:
They are not the same, nither dimensions nor electrical - thay are similar.
Or maybe theres one exup motor I havent seen yet?

You are not reading right.

The motors are interchangeable mechanically, picture attached shows the EXUP motor screwed into the VBoost housing. Gearing is the same ratio between booth units. The EXUP does have a better grade of gears in it, appear to be sintered metal.

The issue is is that the EXUP motor runs at 5vdc and the VBoost motor runs at 12vdc, both of these best guess's by me. A reply on the R1 forum confirmed the EXUP voltage. It would be helpful if someone could confirm the VBoost voltage by measuring it during key on self test. Also what is the cycle time of the unit? How long does it take to go from closed to full open?

Dependent on the voltage readings & cycle time it seems there needs to be a 5v to 12v converter to get the VBoost to work with the Ignitech TCI. Fortunetly the locked rotor current draw is under an amp with either motor so this simplifies circuit design. Locked rotor amps reading is the amount of current draw a motor draws when shaft can not rotate.

It was mentioned that an RC car motor may work. Are these in the 5V range?

I haven't tested on my bike yet, it's about 18 degrees here, too cold for me to open garage door up and test this.

I have taken readings on both motors shown below. These readings were taken with good quality equipment. Coil ohms were with a Fluke meter.

EXUP 3.54 ohms coil

5.0vdc input
.25 amps run current
.79 amps locked rotor
2.5 seconds full rotation of output shaft.

12.0vdc input
.344 amps run current
.925 amps locked rotor
1 seconds full rotation of output shaft.

VBoost 14.5 ohms coil

5.0vdc input
.075 amps run current
.51 amps locked rotor
4 seconds full rotation of output shaft.

12.0vdc input
.103 amps run current
.79 amps locked rotor
1.5 seconds full rotation of output shaft.

Gary

wildweasel_pt · Jan 14, 2012

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ships-US-Si...ccessories&hash=item2eb9939e5b#ht_1404wt_1163

Browse online for 5volt servos... They are around...

dingy · Jan 22, 2012

Just shamelessly bumping this up to see what interest there is in getting in on this.

PM or email me at gary(@)dinges.com Remove brackets around @.

I have a decent amount of interest on Venture side so I am definitely doing this again.

Gary

Second Ignitech Aftermarket TCI group buy

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