Starter went "Kablooey!"

I've never had a problem with cold starts. There is the occassional sticky hot start but I was gonna go through all that this winter. It's a '02 with 42k miles, 10k of which are mine starting last December.

Last night the bike fired up just like always and I rode it around town without any problems, starting it up several more times that night.

Tonight I hit the button on the cold bike and there was a fast loud "CLACKETY-SMACKETY-CRSSSSSHHHH!" I turned the key off and thought about it. Then I turned the key back on and hit the starter button again. The starter spun freely but did not engage the motor.

I haven't been inside this motor since the valve adjust thousands of miles ago last year. Not knowing anything about the starter setup on a Vmax, does anyone know what has gone wrong?

The place where the starter turns the motor is not working.

Ideas? And thanks.....

you need to pull the left side cover(stator side). the starter holds a gear in there. sounds like that gear is your problem. oh ya drain the oil first.

Sounds like the starter clutch cracked to me. You have to pull the flywheel off to get to it. Look at our videos to get the idea of what to look for.

Before you can pull the stator cover you also need to remove the mid gear cover.

Sean

Cool, where are the vidoes?

Thanks....

coffee_brake said:

Cool, where are the vidoes?

Thanks....

Click to expand...

Click on Sean's Facebook link in his sig. Once there, click the video tab and scroll through the videos 'till you see something relevant.

G Man

Wow the videos are great! What a good resource!

Our budget is tight, if I don't have an air impact can I do it the hard way, turning the puller by hand?
What kind of puller is this in the video? Can I rent this at my local automotive parts store? Or is it small-engine specific?

Get the best puller you can find.

I agree, I need a good quality puller.
I have never used one and have no idea what varieties are available.

1. Can I use an automotive puller?

2. How do you shade-tree types hold the flywheel in place while you loosen that first bolt?

3. There are two idle gear shafts in the stator cover. The first one (the one with just one gear on it, not the one with two gears), that first idle gear shaft, has some wear on it. It has light grooves worn around its diameter, but it has much deeper gouges going up and down the length of it where the gear rides. Is this where I heard the noise last night?

If ya'll can help me answer these questions I really appreciate it.
Yes, all three of the bolts have peen marks but I can turn all three with my finger.


Oh...
4. I can see into the oil pan with the stator cover off. Can I tell from here if the o-ring that often fails in there has been replaced?

Thank you, thank you, thank you for taking a moment to make me informed....

I use a Sears Craftsman puller but the key is the bolts. Get some good grade 8 bolts or better as the normal ones absorb too much flex. Most auto shops will loan you a puller (you may have to pay a fee or holding price until you return it).

There is a large socket/wrenching area on the end of the flywheel but you may not have a big enough wrench. I have a giant Crescent wrench I use when needing to hold it (you can do it by hand this way).

The small gears are full time engaged and rarely go bad. Not likely to be the problem. The first indication was the noise and the second is the fact the bolts are loose.

You may be able to see the oil o-ring with the oil drained and a long mirror tool.

Sean

For a puller, go to a local Autozone, and ask for a "harmonic balancer puller" at the tool rental desk. It's what most people would call a crow-foot puller, it comes with several sets of bolts. One of them fits the vmax flywheel perfectly, and the puller works great. It's like a $15 deposit.

An impact isn't required, but it does make things a lot easier. You can buy one at Harbor Freight for $20 assuming you have an air compressor with a tank. Otherwise like Sean said a big-*** adjustable or breaker bar/socket can get it done. Tighten it up about as much as you can, then give the puller stud a good smack with a hammer. Re-tighten, then smack again. Do that until it lets go. Mine took 3 or 4 cycles tightening it as much as the impact would get and smacking. On the last smack the flywheel popped off.

Thanks guys for the information. Should be able to get the puller in the morning if not tonight.
One more question: I don't think I understand about how to get the bolt off the end of the shaft, the one you use to turn the engine over manually. How do I hold the shaft still so I can remove that bolt?

Since you don't have an impact, I would try to put the bike in gear and hold the rear brake then loosen the bolt

The 'bolt' you should be using to rotate the engine a hexagon (32mm ?) and it is part of the flywheel.
What you need to remove is the smaller one in the center which holds the flywheel to the crank.

A spanner on the larger hex to hold it steady - if you are a gorilla use your fingers to undo the center bolt - for us mortals a swing bar works fine.

I agree with Sean about the bolts - either replace them with high tensile jobbies or (IMHO) better still have some large diameter posts made and use a stud to go into the flywheel and a short bolt at the top.

I normally loosen the center bolt but leave it in situ with the center bolt of the puller pushing on to it. This ensures that you cant damage the end of the crank.

When you have the puller bolt nice and tight a good belt with a club hammer should see the flywheel coming off. It is worthwhile having something soft besides the motor for it to land on.
Note that if the more the bolts stretch the further it will fly!

All excellent information, thanks a lot!
I can rent the puller but the time restraints for returning it mean I can't go get it till later, it's a very busy weekend at work. Which is also a good thing!

Just one more question: there aren't any left-handed threads or any other little trivial things in this flywheel removal, are there?

Nope - all normal as I recall.

Another teeny thing to remember - you must use a gasket when re-assembling as the starter gears are likely to bind up if you don't. :Sick:

An old trick I still use for removing a fastner from a crankshaft/flywheel on most gas engines is to remove a spark plug and run the piston down in the bore, insert a length of nylon or soft cotton rope in as much as you can, turn the engine in the direction you need to remove the fastner and off it comes! Back the crank up to remove.....................

I got my center bolt loose simply by leaving the motor in gear and loading up the break over bar and then smacking it with a dead blow hammer. I had an impact but still didn't use it....

As others have said...DO leave the bolt in place but loose when pulling the flywheel so it can't go rocketing off into your lap.

I also used a torch to try to put heat on the flywheel without heating the crankshaft to get it to loosen it's death grip on the crankshaft.

When you pull the bolt out thered is going to be an oil wiper thingie inside the crankshaft, make sure it goes back in the way you found it.

I put mineon the side stand and did not have to drain the oil, although I had to catch about a pint of it when pulling the cover. I had my wife hold the bike to keep it from rolling off the side stand when smacking on the breakover bar.

Pay VERY careful attention to where the cover bolts came from, they seem to be about 20,000 different lengths and need to go back where they came from.

The noise you heard is the starter clutch undrerneath the flyweel, it's a brass cage with some rollers in it that create a one way clutch, The cage cracks and no more clutch after that.

The noise is usually not the gears in my experience, but with 42K on the bike I'd go ahead and replace 'em anyway.

Lock tight the **** (red) out of the bolts that hold the clutch to the flywheel. Then set them with heat. The manual says to ping/crimp 'em in place afrom the front side as well but I couldn't find a centerpunch hard enough to do the job, those bolts are hard as a MF....

BTW....the three bolts coming loose are usually the root cause of this whole problem, they allow the clutch to move around putting unequal stress on the clutch and therefore breaking it..


The advicer on the gaskets is dead on, no gaskets is going to equal gear misalignment since the cover determinies where one of the gears sits.

For those of you who it's not too late the first time I heard any ****** up noise from the starter I would dive in and fix it because the bolts may be able to be re-tightened before the clutch breaks?????? I heard bad noises for quite some time before mine quit completely......?????

The need for a gasket has been mentioned, but I got away just fine (twice actually) without using one. RTV is just what it says...a "gasket maker". However you have to follow the instructions for it to work right and proper. Don't squirt on on there, torque it down and refill with oil. Ensure all oil is gone from the covers, and that none will drip onto the seal as you wait for it to dry. Apply a thin bead to both sides, then LIGHTLY assemble. The stator is perfect since the magnetism gently pulls the cover on. Seat the cover and start the bolts, but don't tighten them at all. Let it sit 24 full hours. Then tighten the bolts and refill the oil. If you tighten the bolts too soon you squeeze out all the sealant and the "gasket" it makes won't be thick enough and may bind, or leak.

I could never make the stator cover seal with OEM gaskets. Tried three times, with three new gaskets. Every time it leaked no matter how well I cleaned. Cleaned it again, used Ultra Black per instructions, and been bone dry under my motor since.

Autozone tool rental lets you keep the doohickey for as long as you want. Honestly for the $15 deposit, I thought about keeping the puller since it was a nice piece, and was brand new. But I did the right thing and bring it back...

I was always a bit sketchy about putting the puller's point on that tiny little oil passage on the flywheel bolt. Figured it would smash it all up, I always took the bolt out first. Though if it's been done without damaging that little passage, then I suppose it makes sense since it keeps the flywheel from taking flight. Mine popped but it's not like it took flight across the room or anything.

All this info is new to me and I'm ready to give it a go. Absolutely appreciate all the advice, especially about the little bits that are going to come out with the flywheel.

Beekeeper is saying basically to fill a cylinder with something clean and soft that can be removed later, so the piston is stopped from moving and it holds the engine still? That makes sense....since I'll be trying to do this by myself I'll need any help I can get holding things still. Bike is strapped to our cheapie Harbor Freight lift.

Thanks again...I'm trying not to think about how I'm going to get the darn thing back on....or how I'm gonna pay for all the new parts....one thing at a time.
I thought the hot starting noises were because the starter was dirty. I was gonna clean it this winter and go through the charging system too. I didn't know it was the bolts backing out, I feel like an ***** but at least it happened at home....

Oooh, this thing is tough. I got the puller from AutoZone. I tried it with the bolts that came with it, of course they're bending and the heads are pulling off of them, without ever budging the flywheel. Ya'll warned me they would.

The specialized fastener store won't open till Monday...does Lowe's carry any bolts of high enough grade to do this job?

I'm holding the motor still by sticking a long bar through the bolts with the other end up against the engine guard. Is this OK or is it making it pull sideways?

There is enough pressure that the end of the bolt in the middle of the puller is marring the crankshaft. Not bending it or deforming it, just marring the end of it. Does this mean I'm doing something wrong and it should have come off by now?

I'm listening for the voice of experience here...thanks....