1500 cc being built

[Fire-medic]

I went to my friend Steve's shop today & he is building this for a customer:
1] disassembled motor
2] cams in head
3] pistons campared
4] no V-Boost; Nitrous nozzles to be added
5] crankshaft & case
6] big I & E valves, big ports
7] billet transparent electron producer
8] cams w/Suzuki shim-under bucket followers
9] 1500 cc cylinders
10[ pistons again compared

All-motor they are looking for 200 r.w.h.p. on racing gas. My friend Palm Beach Mike (formerly of Crane Cams) did the machine work.

 

[The Beekeeper]

The difference in piston size is substantial, can a stock bore be taken out that far or is an aftermarket case used?

 

[Fire-medic]

The difference in piston size is substantial, can a stock bore be taken out that far or is an aftermarket case used?

Stock case w/mods. Rods are stock VMax "Y25" designation which are, the builder said, plenty strong-enough. The stock VMax rods in the original bike were "Y11" 's.

Intake 0.415", exhaust 0.385" lift. Dig those 'eyebrows' in the new pistons, much more distinct than in the stock pistons. Gotta have clearance!

Not a cheap build.

 

[one2dmax]

The rods won't survive (at least not for long). Also, don't see any good head studs (just see the old ones) so he may have head gasket issues.

When we build the big motors (or about any motor not stock) we use ARP studs we custom order. Anything bigger then say 1350 we suggest upgrading the rods. We sell a set being custom made for us which are similar to Carrillo "H" beam rods for $750 a set. We do sell the Carrillo's too but they are more expensive. All out engines will want those. We can even have our rods built even thicker which will be stronger than Carrillo's but they are heavier too when done that way.

Looks like the spread on those valve reliefs might be a bit wide but it's hard to tell from a picture.

To go 1500 on a stock Vmax block you need to definitely do some work. The stock sleeves have to be removed. Bore the bare block for new sleeves. Install the new sleeves and then rebore and hone them to final size (85mm with stock stroke).

Stock Vmax Blocks can be built up to 1275 with stock liners and stock stroke crank.
Venture Blocks can be built up to 1344 with stock liners and stock stroke crank.

We are building a number of engines right now (not counting stock stuff).
One 1508 (80mm bore and 75mm stroke) - Venture Block +1mm Bore and +9mm Stroke - Stock Valve Sizes but new stainless - Porting - Big Cams - Shim Under Buckets - Carrillo Rods - Custom Transmission Gearing (all gears!)
One 1527 (80.5mm bore and 75mm stroke) - Venture Block +1.5mm Bore and +9mm Stroke - Stock Heads/Cams - Muscle Rods - Overdrive Transmission
One 1333 (79mm bore and 68mm stroke) - Done - Venture Block Stock Bore +2mm Stroke - Stock heads/cams - stock pistons (the stroke increase changes compression to 12:1) - Stock Trans
One 1327 (80mm bore and 66mm stroke) - Done - Venture Block +1mm Bore and Stock Stroke - stock heads/cams - Stock Trans
One 1570 (87mm bore and 66mm stroke) - Customer Assemble - Chaindrive - +11mm Bore and Stock Stroke
One 1428 (83mm bore and 66mm stroke) - Available Engine - +7mm Bore and Stock Stroke
One 1539 (83mm bore and 71mm stroke) - Available Engine - Chaindrive - +7mm Bore and +5mm Stroke

I do like the head work from what I can see and might be interested in having him dome some head preparation for our customers depending on what his charge is. He can email me or call me.

Sean Morley
316-619-8411
[email protected]

 

[Saml01]

I see you build quite a few stroker motors.

 

[one2dmax]

We are starting too anyway!

 

[Saml01]

We are starting too anyway!

Im surprised, I personally don't like strokers.

 

[one2dmax]

We can get more torque, same cc's, without having to resleeve the engines (which is tricky).

Sean

 

[Saml01]

We can get more torque, same cc's, without having to resleeve the engines (which is tricky).

Sean

But you change the characteristics of the engine.

 

[one2dmax]

So does any big bore motor. more HP and torque. Same thing we do with stroker car engines.

When you are looking for power the old saying still applies. "there is no replacement for displacement"

That same 1500 would be closer to 1700 if they had stroked the engine at the same time.

Sean

 

[acammer]

But you change the characteristics of the engine.

True. But is that a bad thing? The Max is a already pretty well setup as a 1/4 mile, crush all-comers light to light, beast. Building a stroker that builds torque even sooner and harder is just going to play off the Maxes ability to launch hard and straight and make an even more potent drag racer. That's what this thing really is - it's not a Moto GP track, canyon carver, its a stop light Grand Prix champion - and a stroker will just get it done even better.

 

[one2dmax]

We want to give them some shots to see how roll on kills will be (which is what you run into on the street the most).

 

[Saml01]

We want to give them some shots to see how roll on kills will be (which is what you run into on the street the most).

If thats the goal then it doesnt matter which way you go to make the power, more bore or more stroke. But more stroke isnt the best solution to power in all applications.

 

[acammer]

If thats the goal then it doesnt matter which way you go to make the power, more bore or more stroke. But more stroke isnt the best solution to power in all applications.

Stroke may be the most effective $ per hp solution in this application, whether or not it's the best from a strictly end result viewpoint. It's the reason that SBC guys build 383's all day long, instead of going out and getting 400 or aftermarket blocks to get more bore - it's just a cheaper way to go with a similar outcome. I don't know much about the Vmax motor yet, but from what Sean has described in here, it sounds like big bore setups are much more labor/part and therefore dollar intensive.

In the motorcycle world of massively oversquare bore to stroke ratios resulting in stratospheric reving motors, a little more stroke might be just the ticket for those of us that put big value on that "pull hard in any gear at any rpm torque" that bigger strokers tend to produce. I'd be interested in a stroker some day, if I grenade the stock motor.

 

[one2dmax]

exactly. Maybe in a pure drag race engine we might actually want to destroke the engine to get more RPM. BUT, then the heads won't flow enough anyway (even with work). So, most of us ride them on the street and want to grab a handfull of throttle and take off. That's where the torque monsters the strokers are really shine.

They are still going to rev. The rod stroke ratio's aren't all that bad to begin with. BUT, of course the long rod engines are going the opposite way and will improve the ratio but again for mostly high rpm usage.

We can stroke a stock crank 2mm which increases compression to 12:1 when the stock pistons are reused. The heads don't even need to come off! Just the valve covers to get the cams (chain) loose and then split the case.

The 9mm stroke increase does require some custom pistons with support for the oil rails but the pistons are very light and reduce reciprocating mass thus giving you back most of your lost rpm's due to the stroke.

Sean

 

[Saml01]

Not disagreeing with you guys, just saying there's more than one way to skin a cat. Plus get to learn something new.

Sean, you really should have a price list on your site for engine services.

 

[one2dmax]

I just got done updating my excel spreadsheet. I'll have to ask my web guy if we can attach it somehow?

There are so many options it's not funny.

Sean

 

[Saml01]

Im telling you Sean, I got a guy that makes AMAZING websites. He's what the business calls a user experience and content designer. So its not just a website, but he takes your business and tailors your page and the information you have to suit the audience you are reaching.

Your site, honestly, looks like a third greater did it. Does nothing to truly reflect the business you run.

 

[smithben1983]

Im telling you Sean, I got a guy that makes AMAZING websites. He's what the business calls a user experience and content designer. So its not just a website, but he takes your business and tailors your page and the information you have to suit the audience you are reaching.

Your site, honestly, looks like a third greater did it. Does nothing to truly reflect the business you run.

not to be this guy cause i suck at spelling but I think your trying grader... maybe thats how u spell it. u said 3rd greater. but yes sean is a little rough! lol

 

[Fire-medic]

not to be this guy cause i suck at spelling but I think your trying grader... maybe thats how u spell it. u said 3rd greater. but yes sean is a little rough! lol

Sean has lots to volunteer here, and when I go to the website, I don't see the services or goods listed for which he writes in the posts. I don't want to call him up and bother him w/questions unless I was ready to buy something, and wanted to give him a fair shot to bid for my $$ for contributing so-freely to the site's sucess as a repository of V4 info. Make that Yamaha V4!

Yeah, I think he needs an update to allow the site to better-reach the intended audience. I understand there are so-many options in what he does, I think that most people want that 'live-chat' via landline before sending someone their engine or bike parts, or ordering something four-figures or more...

I think the Boxenstopp site has a pretty-good catalog of parts and services. The thing is that once you commit, you have to have the service to work the site properly. That in-itself can be a full-time job. My friend's bike accessory business by the FLL (Ft. Lauderdale) airport has a full-time web business person who advertises & responds to ads and runs the auctions. He does well at it. Apart from the walk-in traffic, there are days in this slow economy where he rivals or surpasses the walk-ins for $/day.

I haven't been over to my friend's shop to pose some of the questions raised by viewers of this thread, but I will. Then I will post what I find-out.

My wife says I spend too-much time on the keyboard, but it's clean fun and I find-out lots of info, and enjoy the interaction. Having spent time on other sites dealing w/various internal-combustion conveyances, the people here are courteous and helpful, and are not-afraid to ask questions, or to contribute answers. That isn't the norm, unfortunately.

So, if Sean was able to upgrade his content, I bet he would increase his business, and that would make it worthwhile.