Hi guys, need help got 97 vmax which is not charging, new stator, new r/r, new battery, still not charging. Checked all readings on new parts (all good), getting 16 volts at stator plug as soon as I connect the r/r plug the readings at the plug drop to 10 volts at idle speed, and stays at that even when bike is reved, the bike starts and runs, but as soon as it warms up it runs like shit, fan comes on bike stops. Can anybody help me before I pull out whats left of my hair. Many Thanks David.
Help Support VMAX Forum:
HyperPete
Well-Known Member
Did you run the wires from the new R/R directly to the battery?
alorio1
Well-Known Member
Stator volts should be around 40 volts on all 3 legs (AC). You should post some pics of your connections. Here is a good write up on the subject.............
http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=19108
http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=19108
mwilson410
Member
Hey guys, this Max belongs to my brother. We have followed every post and diagram on this site. The Max is 1997 and mint with low mileage and very pampered and has rarely seen rain or dirt. We bypassed the crimp and wired the new R/R directly to the battery, cleaned all earth wires, fitted new heavy duty earth strap from battery to frame. Because the stator and battery and R/R are new, the wiring and blocks connectors are perfect. When the bike is running from cold and we disconnect the block connector from the R/R, The Stator reads from 16 up to 40 or more when the bike is revved. The reading from the battery at 1000 rpm is 13.4v and up to 14.2v when revved higher. Once the bike is warm and the fan cuts in, the reading at the battery drops to 13v and recovers when the fan is off. The second time the fan runs we drop to 12.5 and the bike really starts to run badly and we have less voltage recovery, the third time the fan runs the voltage is just around 12v and it never recovers and the bike dies. When the bike is left to completely go cold and started up again, the volatage at the battery at 1000rpm is up to 14.2 again. Is something breaking down when it is hot?
My brother is pulling his hair out, unfortunatley I have none to pull out!
Thanks guys..... Michael
My brother is pulling his hair out, unfortunatley I have none to pull out!
Thanks guys..... Michael
I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say that at least one of your new parts is faulty - either the r/r, or the stator. I'm going with the r/r.
one2dmax
Well-Known Member
Could even be the battery itself.
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mwilson410
Member
Thanks for the reply guys. Our major problem is that we are not great with electrical issues. Even though we have two good voltage meters, knowing how to use them properly is another issue.
Is it possible for new parts to be faulty? How can we isolate which part is breaking down under load. With the bike running the stator wires put out a proper voltage reading when the connector between it and the R/R is disconnected, but the reading changes when the connector block is pushed together even though the volt metre is still pushed into the same white wires as before on the stator side of the plug. Is this normal?
We hooked up the old R/R which is the new type with the fins and earth wire, and the symptoms are much the same. The old stator we took out looks in really good condition. Brand new battery one week ago, properly charged before fitting! The bike is doing exactly the same things now as it did when the old parts were on there!
Maybe the old R/R was faulty and fitting a new one which is also faulty is really causing confusion with us (which isn't hard to do)
Please help guys, we live in Northern Ireland and we only have a short amount of riding time before the weather is about to do what it does best here......... rain, rain and more rain!
Is it possible for new parts to be faulty? How can we isolate which part is breaking down under load. With the bike running the stator wires put out a proper voltage reading when the connector between it and the R/R is disconnected, but the reading changes when the connector block is pushed together even though the volt metre is still pushed into the same white wires as before on the stator side of the plug. Is this normal?
We hooked up the old R/R which is the new type with the fins and earth wire, and the symptoms are much the same. The old stator we took out looks in really good condition. Brand new battery one week ago, properly charged before fitting! The bike is doing exactly the same things now as it did when the old parts were on there!
Maybe the old R/R was faulty and fitting a new one which is also faulty is really causing confusion with us (which isn't hard to do)
Please help guys, we live in Northern Ireland and we only have a short amount of riding time before the weather is about to do what it does best here......... rain, rain and more rain!
Last edited:
DMAN999
Well-Known Member
The first thing I would do is have the Battery Load Tested, most auto parts stores will do that for free.
Start with having that new battery load tested an a nearby auto parts dealer. Most all the ones around here can load test a battery, and usually do it for free. You will need to have it fully charged when you take it in. edit: (Dennis beat me to this part - I got interrupted while typing it)/edit
pg7-21 of the VMX12 service manual says you should be able to measure (bike off, and stator wires unplugged) 0.42 ohms resistance between any/all combinations of the 3 white wires coming from the stator. + or - 15% of 20 degrees (68F).
The next page deals with all the testing necessary to fully evaluate the R/R. There is a PDF file attached here someplace you can download and peruse to see all those tests charted out connector by connector.
pg7-21 of the VMX12 service manual says you should be able to measure (bike off, and stator wires unplugged) 0.42 ohms resistance between any/all combinations of the 3 white wires coming from the stator. + or - 15% of 20 degrees (68F).
The next page deals with all the testing necessary to fully evaluate the R/R. There is a PDF file attached here someplace you can download and peruse to see all those tests charted out connector by connector.
Bill Seward
Well-Known Member
You got a good battery, and proper AC going into the R/R and low output voltage - I'd bet on a bad R/R unit. Won't be the first time someone got a bad one out of the box....
Yep, and very frustrating! I had that w/a KZ1000 tune-up, once, about 26 years-ago, a new bad spark plug. My more-experienced friend's first question when I was complaining about the bike missing was, "did you try new plugs?" He said, "buy 4 new ones from another store, and install those." That fixed it, and I learned a lesson.
mwilson410
Member
cheers guys, hopefully on Friday we will get the battery tested and eliminate the first piece of the puzzle. I will report back with the result !
Thanks for the help so far
Michael
Thanks for the help so far
Michael
mwilson410
Member
Here goes guys, firstly thanks for all the help and advice.
The new battery load tested perfectly which i hoped it wouldn't !
Back home we followed all the diagrams for testing the stator and r/r again and everything is as it should be.
With the battery now also tested we were getting desperate and uncovered a dastardly plan.
We have a friend's Suzuki GSXR 1000 in the shed so we checked it's charging output and it is 14.4V at the battery even with all lights and stuff switched on.
So as you do...... we stole his r/r .
Knowing the Suzuki was charging perfectly, we then fitted the new Vmax r/r on the GSXR and low and behold the reading at the battery was down in the 12v range... Faulty vmax R/R ?????
We painstakingly wired the Suzuki r/r onto the Vmax. Bollocks.... the charging was still crap. Faulty vmax stator????
We were left scratching our heads thinking that an r/r should be the same for all bikes and wondering then if the suzuki r/r wasn't compatible!
After discussing a double suicide scheme and being two cowards, we had coffee and put the bikes back together and went out and fixed the shed roof....... lots of hammering in nails and sawing and more manly stuff made up for our motorcycle repair failure.
My Bro had decided to do what he was trying to avoid, save up to pay someone a lot of money to fix what we hoped to do ourselves..... BOLLOCKS!
The new battery load tested perfectly which i hoped it wouldn't !
Back home we followed all the diagrams for testing the stator and r/r again and everything is as it should be.
With the battery now also tested we were getting desperate and uncovered a dastardly plan.
We have a friend's Suzuki GSXR 1000 in the shed so we checked it's charging output and it is 14.4V at the battery even with all lights and stuff switched on.
So as you do...... we stole his r/r .
Knowing the Suzuki was charging perfectly, we then fitted the new Vmax r/r on the GSXR and low and behold the reading at the battery was down in the 12v range... Faulty vmax R/R ?????
We painstakingly wired the Suzuki r/r onto the Vmax. Bollocks.... the charging was still crap. Faulty vmax stator????
We were left scratching our heads thinking that an r/r should be the same for all bikes and wondering then if the suzuki r/r wasn't compatible!
After discussing a double suicide scheme and being two cowards, we had coffee and put the bikes back together and went out and fixed the shed roof....... lots of hammering in nails and sawing and more manly stuff made up for our motorcycle repair failure.
My Bro had decided to do what he was trying to avoid, save up to pay someone a lot of money to fix what we hoped to do ourselves..... BOLLOCKS!
Miles Long
Well-Known Member
Mr. Wilson -
Before taking the bike to a dealer, and/or committing suicide,
harken back to a remark in your first posting..."Is something breaking down when it is hot?"
I'm thinking of the stator. Warm up the bike till the decreasing battery voltage causes the bike to stumble, then quickly unplug the stator connector and redo the AC voltage, resistance, and continuity tests.
cheers!
I am w/Mr Miles Long on this one and I bet you will discover that unless you have a bad wire (or more) going to the R/R, that the problem is as he described it. The current issue of Motorcyclist has a problem in their mechanics-questions and solutions column, "MC Garage-Answers" about a Gold Wing 1200 and a stator problem. All the Jap bikes seem to have stator/electrical problems somewhere in their background. This one details a 'sitting for years after having electrical issues, & now for sale, cheap' scenario, and the guy is wondering about buying this 'pig in a poke.' On the GW, the engine needs to be pulled for the stator replacement. The response is also to try what we recommend for the VMax, soldering the 3 stator wires to remove the stator to R/R plug, which is known to fail due to corrosion & high resistance resultant from the poor connection. It happened to me, my plug housing turned to powder and was brown from heat where it hadn't powdered due to the excessive heat of high resistance. The 'crimp fix' and the R/R wire soldering seem to go a long ways towards fixing electrical issues. I have Gannon's COPS kit, and while not as-sexy as Redbone's signature ladies, to me the main benefit is the ease of replacement. It's just another way to simplify the electrical system function, to ease replacement of a suspect or failed component, and to eliminate multiple electrical connection issues.
wildweasel_pt
Well-Known Member
Thats not normal... should be higher...
Yes, I think 40 V is a minimum for all legs. The service manual says 14.5 V DC +-0.5 volts @ 2K rpm from the regulator/rectifier. I couldn't find any value in the service manual for the alternator output, just after the R/R. It had a resistance value for the alternator, 0.42 ohms +- 15% measured between any two white stator leads.
The appendix does say, 25 amps for alternator output @ 5K rpm.
The appendix does say, 25 amps for alternator output @ 5K rpm.
mwilson410
Member
Ok guys thanks again for your help.
I dont think we actually tested the stator when it was warm so we have nothing to lose by giving things another try. (thanks Miles)
I am pretty confident that the wiring is good as all the components and their wires and connecting blocks are new and we are wired direct to the battery with the r/r bypassing the crimp etc. Also new heavy duty battery to frame earth wire. All the earths at the right hand side were removed and cleaned where they meet the frame as was the main earth down to the engine!
we checked the stator yesterday when the bike was cold and the readings were from 20 up to 52 on each leg.
We never had any corroded wiring or burnt plugs on the old stator or the r/r. In fact the old parts and the wires are as good looking as the new ones.
When we test the stator readings with the wiring block disconnected the readings are as they should be 20 - 50v. When we connect the stator block to the r/r block connector and try to take the readings from the same stator wires as before only now the blocks are pushed together, the reading are down to 10v approx.
Should this happen? I just assumed the AC reading would continue through the connectors and up the harness until the rectifier changed them to DC and the regulator limited the voltage to supply the battery.
It just seems crazy that you pay a lot of money and go to the trouble of getting new parts and there is no garauntee that they are going to function properly especially with somehing like the stator which is all hassle to remove again!
Michael
I dont think we actually tested the stator when it was warm so we have nothing to lose by giving things another try. (thanks Miles)
I am pretty confident that the wiring is good as all the components and their wires and connecting blocks are new and we are wired direct to the battery with the r/r bypassing the crimp etc. Also new heavy duty battery to frame earth wire. All the earths at the right hand side were removed and cleaned where they meet the frame as was the main earth down to the engine!
we checked the stator yesterday when the bike was cold and the readings were from 20 up to 52 on each leg.
We never had any corroded wiring or burnt plugs on the old stator or the r/r. In fact the old parts and the wires are as good looking as the new ones.
When we test the stator readings with the wiring block disconnected the readings are as they should be 20 - 50v. When we connect the stator block to the r/r block connector and try to take the readings from the same stator wires as before only now the blocks are pushed together, the reading are down to 10v approx.
Should this happen? I just assumed the AC reading would continue through the connectors and up the harness until the rectifier changed them to DC and the regulator limited the voltage to supply the battery.
It just seems crazy that you pay a lot of money and go to the trouble of getting new parts and there is no garauntee that they are going to function properly especially with somehing like the stator which is all hassle to remove again!
Michael
Dr.n2o
Well-Known Member
If you're seeing 13.4-14.2v at the battery like you posted, that's pretty good voltage. I will tell you from my own personal experience that the stock coils do break down when the engine heats up. I had replaced stator, r/r, did crimp fix and new battery. Until the c o p upgrade from Gannon was done. Problem solved....again just my personal experience.
mwilson410
Member
Vmax bonefire imminent !
Okay guys I am back again. We ran the bike until the fan came on and when the fan shut of again with the engine still running (but starting to run lumpy), we disconnected the wiring block and tested the three wires coming from the stator. With the engine running the reading on all three wires was identical, from 20v AC at 1000rpm up to 52v at 2000rpm. Also switched the bike off and did the two stationery tests that are detailed from the guys here, and in the flow charts posted here on the forum. All readings check out fine!
Okay guys I am back again. We ran the bike until the fan came on and when the fan shut of again with the engine still running (but starting to run lumpy), we disconnected the wiring block and tested the three wires coming from the stator. With the engine running the reading on all three wires was identical, from 20v AC at 1000rpm up to 52v at 2000rpm. Also switched the bike off and did the two stationery tests that are detailed from the guys here, and in the flow charts posted here on the forum. All readings check out fine!
