96 Slipping Clutlch

[usafeod]

My 96 has about 6K miles on it and obviously is not ridden much. The clutch started slipping so I took it in & had new set of clutch disc's installed. For a short time, it was fine but withing 25 miles, it was doing the same thing? The clutch engages at the very top as you let the lever out. The clutch lever started to feel like it took more pressure to disengage the clutch just before it started to slip. I bled the system & it was fine again for about 25 miles & the same issues start again, more pressure on the grip, catches at the very top & it starts to slip? It seems almost like the more you use the clutch, it builds up pressure in the line which does not bleed off there by it does not allow you to fully engage the clutch? Send help! $200 later & I still have the same problem?

 

[Traumahawk]

It sounds like there is a little bleed port inside of the clutch master cylinder is blocked. You can take something thin....like a guitar string and poke down into the hole, and remove the obstruction.

 

[PATMAX]

Anything damp or wet under the motor
on the clutch side?
I like Tramahawks idea but really there are not that
many things that can go bad. Slave cylinder, clutch spring
or master cylinder. Other than that, it the mater of bleeding the system with fresh brake fluid.
Welcome to the best Vmax forum ever. You can do this. Screw the stealership, buy a factory manual if you don't have one already. I have one with no cover I'd sell you for $15
shipped if you like.

 

[davesax36]

Is the barrel inside the lever binding and not releasing the plunger all the way? Also Traumahawk has a probable solution (worked on mine with your exact situation).

 

[usafeod]

Thanks everyone, I'll try the blocked hole. I've looked but have not seen it yet. The system was flushed when the new clutch disk were installed & I also bled it again after the second incident of slippage. Thanks again for your suggestions.

 

[huskyman510]

Also check that the master cyl isnt brimmed full, leave it with some air in there after putting the rubber gasket in, I had the same issue couldnt work it out. Replaced everything and in the end that is all it was. My little window is just under half full

 

[Fire-medic]

If you had the fluid changed, there shouldn't be any crud in the fluid to plug the small hole closest to the master cyl banjo bolt. It could happen though. Sounds like air is infiltrating the system. Maybe time for a rebuild on the master cyl or the slave cyl. Check your attachment points for the rubber hose from the master cyl and the rigid line which goes to the slave cyl. Any weepage? Then you have a point of air leaking into the system. The copper washers can be surfaced on a piece of fine grade sandpaper if they have deformed to where they have ridges or raised rings on them, or just take them to the auto parts store and look for comparable ones, which probably won't be as-thick.

And when you bleed the clutch cyl, push the fluid up from the slave cyl bleeder w/a syringe. Use a short piece of 1/4" ID tubing clamped onto the nipple & the syringe. Be sure your master cyl is not full, check it frequently as you inject the brake fluid into the bleeder. Quicker than a Mity-Vac.

 

[usafeod]

No leakage, the master cylinder seems to work freely & I've got a factory type shop manual which hasn't help me so far but tomorrow is another day. I'll pull a bit of fluid out & see if it needs a bit of expansion space. Thanks again everyone.

 

[davesax36]

The hole you're looking for doesn't really look like a hole. It's almost like someone started to drill a hole, then quit. There are two of them next to each other if I remember. Get a towel to cover your painted parts and a guitar string (G or B will be the right gauge). Poke around in that hole and watch out for a fountain of brake fluid to go everywhere... don't ask how I know. You might get the same result I got - a new feeling clutch.

 

[Traumahawk]

The hole you're looking for doesn't really look like a hole. It's almost like someone started to drill a hole, then quit. There are two of them next to each other if I remember. Get a towel to cover your painted parts and a guitar string (G or B will be the right gauge). Poke around in that hole and watch out for a fountain of brake fluid to go everywhere... don't ask how I know. You might get the same result I got - a new feeling clutch.

If I remember correctly it is the hole to the inside of the master cylinder.

 

[davesax36]

Yup.

 

[timpilot]

I just recently bought a '99 with 16K miles and the Barnett spring conversion.
Clutch slave was leaking so I honed the cylinder and put in new piston seal and dust seal. Clutch is fine on the 12-mile ride to work in the morning but starts slipping badly in 105-degree heat on the way home. As others have described, the lever is hard to pull from the very beginning of its travel and the clutch only begins to engage in the nearly-all-the-way-out end of its travel. I have tried traditional bleeding but saw no air bubbles. Tried reverse-bleeding with a 60cc syringe attached to the bleed port but can't push ANY fluid into the system. I can see the piston and O-rings sliding past both ports in the master cylinder so they're not plugged. Previous owner said the engine has Shell Rotella diesel-engine oil.

Any ideas on what to try next?? I'm anxious to ride my new 3-week-old baby but getting pretty bummed out.

 

[huskyman510]

I just recently bought a '99 with 16K miles and the Barnett spring conversion.
Clutch slave was leaking so I honed the cylinder and put in new piston seal and dust seal. Clutch is fine on the 12-mile ride to work in the morning but starts slipping badly in 105-degree heat on the way home. As others have described, the lever is hard to pull from the very beginning of its travel and the clutch only begins to engage in the nearly-all-the-way-out end of its travel. I have tried traditional bleeding but saw no air bubbles. Tried reverse-bleeding with a 60cc syringe attached to the bleed port but can't push ANY fluid into the system. I can see the piston and O-rings sliding past both ports in the master cylinder so they're not plugged. Previous owner said the engine has Shell Rotella diesel-engine oil.

Any ideas on what to try next?? I'm anxious to ride my new 3-week-old baby but getting pretty bummed out.

Take your lever off when reverse bleeding, if the piston in m/c isnt all the way out the fluid wont come up through, I learnt this the hard way.

 

[wayne z]

I would advise against reverse bleeding unless the slave is new or rebuilt or extra flushing is done. All the crud in the system migrates to the slave, and reverse bleeding a used one can contaminate the whole system unless it well flushed by top down bleeding afterwaed.

Also, the old school trick for re-using copper washers is to anneal them to re- soften them by heating with a torch or bic ect. until cherry red and then air cool.

I had no trouble bleeding my complety empty and dry after purging, clutch lines, from top down after I figured out how to bleed the master without cracking the banjo bolt for a mess. Just put fluid in the resivoir and keep pumping short strokes and pausing a few seconds and bubbles will keep coming out of the small resivoir hole for several munites of doing this. When the bubbles finaly stop, you can then pump the master to do a normal top down bleed. I say normal, but it took about 3-4 oz of bled fluid before all traces of air were gone.

 

[Traumahawk]

I just recently bought a '99 with 16K miles and the Barnett spring conversion.
Clutch slave was leaking so I honed the cylinder and put in new piston seal and dust seal. Clutch is fine on the 12-mile ride to work in the morning but starts slipping badly in 105-degree heat on the way home. As others have described, the lever is hard to pull from the very beginning of its travel and the clutch only begins to engage in the nearly-all-the-way-out end of its travel. I have tried traditional bleeding but saw no air bubbles. Tried reverse-bleeding with a 60cc syringe attached to the bleed port but can't push ANY fluid into the system. I can see the piston and O-rings sliding past both ports in the master cylinder so they're not plugged. Previous owner said the engine has Shell Rotella diesel-engine oil.

Any ideas on what to try next?? I'm anxious to ride my new 3-week-old baby but getting pretty bummed out.

When I bled my clutch I tried an old trick. I wrapped a rag around the clutch lever and tied it...engaged... to the hand grip....and walked away. I came back the next morning, bled the system as usual and all is well. It gives the system time for all traces of air to completely get gone.

Also there is a return hole inside of the master cylinder to the inside of the hole where the clutch fluid gets expelled into the line. It is a very small hole. Sometimes crap will get caught into the return hole, and fluid...and fluid pressure will build in the clutch line, and not return to the MC. So you need to take a very fine piece of wire....and clean out that hole. There are several people on this forum that have had that problem, and used that trick to get the clutch to grab again.

 

[alorio1]

I just recently bought a '99 with 16K miles and the Barnett spring conversion.
Clutch slave was leaking so I honed the cylinder and put in new piston seal and dust seal. Clutch is fine on the 12-mile ride to work in the morning but starts slipping badly in 105-degree heat on the way home. As others have described, the lever is hard to pull from the very beginning of its travel and the clutch only begins to engage in the nearly-all-the-way-out end of its travel. I have tried traditional bleeding but saw no air bubbles. Tried reverse-bleeding with a 60cc syringe attached to the bleed port but can't push ANY fluid into the system. I can see the piston and O-rings sliding past both ports in the master cylinder so they're not plugged. Previous owner said the engine has Shell Rotella diesel-engine oil.

Any ideas on what to try next?? I'm anxious to ride my new 3-week-old baby but getting pretty bummed out.

If PO put Shell Rotella full synthetic in the bike , clutch will slip... Try taking the line loose from master and reverse bleed.

 

[Fire-medic]

Reverse-bleeding is much-quicker than the 'pinned to the grip' method. No overnight wait required.

If you're worried about 'pushing contaminated fluid up," just evacuate the master cyl, fill it w/new fluid, and open the bleeder to let it gravity-bleed, while you keep topping-off the master cyl. Once it's running clean from the bleeder, then you can reverse-bleed it. That will get the big air pockets (if any) evacuated to the master cyl. When you start seeing tiny, 'fizzie' bubbles, you're close to being done. Another one or two syringes should give you a fully-bled system. Close the bleeder, 'fan' the lever a few times, and you should get a freely-moving pressure plate.

 

[timpilot]

Take your lever off when reverse bleeding, if the piston in m/c isnt all the way out the fluid wont come up through, I learnt this the hard way.

Thanks, Huskyman! I likely would never have thought to remove the lever to reverse-bleed. That did the trick.

 

[timpilot]

If PO put Shell Rotella full synthetic in the bike , clutch will slip... Try taking the line loose from master and reverse bleed.

Does Rotella come in both synthetic and non-synthetic? I hope it is non-synthetic in my bike.

 

[timpilot]

I would advise against reverse bleeding unless the slave is new or rebuilt or extra flushing is done. All the crud in the system migrates to the slave, and reverse bleeding a used one can contaminate the whole system unless it well flushed by top down bleeding afterwaed.

Also, the old school trick for re-using copper washers is to anneal them to re- soften them by heating with a torch or bic ect. until cherry red and then air cool.

I had no trouble bleeding my complety empty and dry after purging, clutch lines, from top down after I figured out how to bleed the master without cracking the banjo bolt for a mess. Just put fluid in the resivoir and keep pumping short strokes and pausing a few seconds and bubbles will keep coming out of the small resivoir hole for several munites of doing this. When the bubbles finaly stop, you can then pump the master to do a normal top down bleed. I say normal, but it took about 3-4 oz of bled fluid before all traces of air were gone.

I just honed/rebuilt the slave so no crud in there.

The point about annealing the copper washers is a good one. I learned to do that in aircraft mechanic school where we annealed the spark plug solid copper gaskets every time we removed/reused them.