clutch problems(barnett)??? 1st gen vmax

[poppop]

Ive done a few quite a while back.Anyway here goes,You say your clutch is slipping,And the release levers Aren't working,if the clutch is slipping it's got to be installed incorrectly.Otherwise it would grab all the time.The clutch do-sent slip with the levers released,But your's does . Are you sure you have got the right amount of clutch disc and plates installed? Have you got them in correct order?You said something about having too many disc and plates.Before i started working on the slave master cyl,I would be sure the disc and plates are exactly right.Can you push a small feeler gauge in between them if so there there not clamping down.That's why they still slip when you got it together.You may have problems with the clutch master and slave ,But slipping should not be a problem if one or the other isn't working anyway then why does it slip.Gotta be in the clutch assy.Best of luck sorry it has gone so badly for you.

 

[vmax1998]

This might be a relevant or not, but here goes..

I recently picked up a set of bleeder screws when I was rebuilding my rear caliper.
I did not realize that the package the guy sold me where "One-Way" bleeder screws.

They're supposed to make bleeding easier, by not allowing air (or anything else for that matter), to be sucked back in, as you release pressure on the grip or pedal. (This supposedly eliminates the need to close the bleeder screw, each time after the compression step of your brake or clutch bleed).

If you happened to have changed your bleeder screw, or have one of those in there, I can see it not allowing fluid back into your system, popping off, and spitting brake fluid all over the place..

Just food for thought..

I just checked I could suck and blow through my bleeder valve nipple so it must be a two-way I appreciate all the helpful advice I’m a little PO’d that I haven’t rode the bike in a month since I bought it because of all these issues the main thing I can think of is that there is an obstruction in one of the clutch lines so I might try blowing air through it like someone said unfortunately I don’t have an air compressor I’ll have to find A buddy that has one


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[vmax1998]

Update. I pulled off the clutch hose all the way from the master cylinder banjo bolt down to where that metal clamp is holding the L shaped metal line that goes into the slave cylinder. (Haven’t pulled that line off yet cause I need to take off the cover first). Anyways I blew a bunch of compressed air through the opposite end of the banjo bolt and no crud came out and all of the air went in one end and out the other with no problems. So maybe it’s the small L shaped line or the slave? I already checked the slave and there wasn’t any leaks. Maybe it needs a rebuild anyways????


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[Fire-medic]

Might as-well test the L-shaped line too.

Do you have any old valve springs lying-around? Use one against the piston of the removed slave cyl, & held-loosely in-place by a C-clamp. With the system properly-bled and functioning, and with a squeeze of the clutch lever, you should be able to see the piston move-against the valve spring, and then return to its resting position, as the valve spring presses against the piston, when you release clutch lever pressure. That will show you that the slave cyl is working properly, and then you have only the actual clutch to investigate.

 

[vmax1998]

Might as-well test the L-shaped line too.

Do you have any old valve springs lying-around? Use one against the piston of the removed slave cyl, & held-loosely in-place by a C-clamp. With the system properly-bled and functioning, and with a squeeze of the clutch lever, you should be able to see the piston move-against the valve spring, and then return to its resting position, as the valve spring presses against the piston, when you release clutch lever pressure. That will show you that the slave cyl is working properly, and then you have only the actual clutch to investigate.

I don’t have any old valve springs. I ordered a slave rebuild kit and it should be here tomorrow. I’ll just rebuild it too. And if everything’s good after that then it would have to be the clutch itself even though I’ve already replaced it all.


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[vmax1998]

Might as-well test the L-shaped line too.

Do you have any old valve springs lying-around? Use one against the piston of the removed slave cyl, & held-loosely in-place by a C-clamp. With the system properly-bled and functioning, and with a squeeze of the clutch lever, you should be able to see the piston move-against the valve spring, and then return to its resting position, as the valve spring presses against the piston, when you release clutch lever pressure. That will show you that the slave cyl is working properly, and then you have only the actual clutch to investigate.

The slave rebuild kit got here over an hour ago. I rebuilt it and put it back in and the clutch still won’t bleed correctly. I am not going to reverse bleed it because that makes a huge mess and doesn’t work for me. I tried it and it wouldn’t reverse bleed again. It just pissed brake fluid out of the hose due to the pressure. I tried manually bleeding it again and it barely worked. Pushes like an inch or 2 of fluid out and then nothing else after that


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[Fire-medic]

Sorry that you have the issue. There is certainly something fundamentally-wrong in the system.

From your description, you have a blockage, somewhere, that is building-up pressure, acting like a 'one-way' valve. The places where I have encountered similar symptoms is when the small hole in the master cyl is plugged, or when I had an internally-collapsing hose. Both would build pressure that would stay on the system until the bleeder was released/opened.

I know you said you've done all-this before, but start at one end, and work your way to the other. Have you tried to attach the master cyl hose to the slave cyl, bypassing the splitter and the other hoses? So that you are operating the lever and should see the slave cyl piston moving in & out? The reason I said to use an old valve spring against the slave cyl piston is to provide the resistance of the diaphragm spring in the clutch, to return the slave piston to the 'clutch-engaged' position. Without the resistance of the temporary spring, the piston in the slave cyl will just keep moving out with each squeeze, until it pops-out of the slave cyl body, and yes, then you have a mess.

You should be able to go to any local mechanic's shop and get an old valve spring, but you can also do something like using a kid's sponge rubber ball, held in-place with a hose clamp, around the slave cyl, to give you the return action you need for the slave piston. The hardware store also has a selection of springs if you wanted to buy one. Or try the local motorcycle shop, you could probably use a single spring from a clutch that uses multiple springs instead of our single diaphragm spring.

Anyway, examining every part for being to-spec, unobstructed, and free-flowing should give you the properly-operating clutch you need. The fact that you say, "the reverse-bleed doesn't work for me" tells me that your system is obstructed somewhere or something has been assembled backwards. It's really a simple system, there aren't many parts to it. I would concentrate on seeing that the entire system from the clutch lever to the detached slave cyl is operating correctly, and then by default there must be something wrong in the clutch stack, since at that point it's all mechanical. Eliminate the hydraulics as an issue, and then attack the mechanical side of the system.

 

[vmax1998]

Sorry that you have the issue. There is certainly something fundamentally-wrong in the system.

From your description, you have a blockage, somewhere, that is building-up pressure, acting like a 'one-way' valve. The places where I have encountered similar symptoms is when the small hole in the master cyl is plugged, or when I had an internally-collapsing hose. Both would build pressure that would stay on the system until the bleeder was released/opened.

I know you said you've done all-this before, but start at one end, and work your way to the other. Have you tried to attach the master cyl hose to the slave cyl, bypassing the splitter and the other hoses? So that you are operating the lever and should see the slave cyl piston moving in & out? The reason I said to use an old valve spring against the slave cyl piston is to provide the resistance of the diaphragm spring in the clutch, to return the slave piston to the 'clutch-engaged' position. Without the resistance of the temporary spring, the piston in the slave cyl will just keep moving out with each squeeze, until it pops-out of the slave cyl body, and yes, then you have a mess.

You should be able to go to any local mechanic's shop and get an old valve spring, but you can also do something like using a kid's sponge rubber ball, held in-place with a hose clamp, around the slave cyl, to give you the return action you need for the slave piston. The hardware store also has a selection of springs if you wanted to buy one. Or try the local motorcycle shop, you could probably use a single spring from a clutch that uses multiple springs instead of our single diaphragm spring.

Anyway, examining every part for being to-spec, unobstructed, and free-flowing should give you the properly-operating clutch you need. The fact that you say, "the reverse-bleed doesn't work for me" tells me that your system is obstructed somewhere or something has been assembled backwards. It's really a simple system, there aren't many parts to it. I would concentrate on seeing that the entire system from the clutch lever to the detached slave cyl is operating correctly, and then by default there must be something wrong in the clutch stack, since at that point it's all mechanical. Eliminate the hydraulics as an issue, and then attack the mechanical side of the system.

I have a question. Should I be able to blow air through the banjo bolt side of the master cylinder into the reservoir? There’s that little valve looking hole that’s closest to the inboard side of the reservoir. The other hole is unobstructed and the piston can be seen through there. So I’m wondering the the little valve isn’t working


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[vmax1998]

I appreciate it. I don’t know what those controls would do for my issue. I might take the master apart again and make sure I put it together right. I did it to what the manual said but maybe I’ll double check


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I’ll actually take you up on your clutch master cylinder offer.. I think mine is bad even since the rebuild.


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[Fire-medic]

Yes, yes you should. That hole is so-small that you may have a difficult time feeling air come through it, but when you do the reverse-bleed, you should see a geyser of fluid shooting-up from it, once the air is pushed out of the lines.

See #15:
http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=4156&highlight=clutch+reverse-bleed&page=2

Look carefully at this pic, you can see the fountain of brake fluid you should see coming-out of the small master cylinder hole when you do the reverse-flush. If you don't get this, the hole is probably plugged. Use a small pin to poke it free until you get these results.

I have a question. Should I be able to blow air through the banjo bolt side of the master cylinder into the reservoir? There’s that little valve looking hole that’s closest to the inboard side of the reservoir. The other hole is unobstructed and the piston can be seen through there. So I’m wondering the the little valve isn’t working


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[vmax1998]

Yes, yes you should. That hole is so-small that you may have a difficult time feeling air come through it, but when you do the reverse-bleed, you should see a geyser of fluid shooting-up from it, once the air is pushed out of the lines.



See #15:

http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=4156&highlight=clutch+reverse-bleed&page=2

Yea no air comes out. Convinced I need a new master. Or a used one from someone on here if they got one


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[eggohead]

Curious, what clutch lever is on your bike? I put some new adjustable ones on, and my clutch slipped with them. Went back to the stock levers and now slipping....

 

[vmax1998]

Curious, what clutch lever is on your bike? I put some new adjustable ones on, and my clutch slipped with them. Went back to the stock levers and now slipping....

Stock levers


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[jdeitz1979]

Yea no air comes out. Convinced I need a new master. Or a used one from someone on here if they got one


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My offer stands. You pay shipping and they’re yours.


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[vmax1998]

Ok thank you for telling me about the small hole. I stuck a bunch of pins in there until it wasn’t clogged anymore and a fountain came out. The clutch works now but I haven’t rode it yet. Hopefully it is all better now.


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