Clutch when shifting?

[vbmike]

Just wondering if it's bad to not use the clutch when upshifting? I let off the gas and then upshift but I just don't use the clutch. I talking about just normal riding, not racing. It seems I can upshift just as smoothly without using the clutch, no clunking or other noises. Most all bikes I've rode over the years I've done this without any tranny problems. Do bike trannys have syncros like cars that could be damaged by doing this? I can downshift too but that's a little tougher. Anyone else do this?

 

[naughtyG]

We've just had another thread about on this subject.

I'd still say that it's best to use the clutch whenever shifting up or down for tranny longevity.

Clutchless shifts will do damage in the long run.

 

[Birdoprey]

Clutchless shifts will do damage in the long run.

Not true, if done correctly.

 

[lankeeyankee]

:deadhorse:

 

[113s&s]

i dont care what anyone says shifting without a clutch you can feel more times then not the shock it puts on sprockets chain gears rear end ect..have to be brain dead not to feel the effect and shock it puts through the bike...all out high rpm drag racing might be a different story...its also a safty issue when riding in the street ...besides its half the fun of riding

 

[lankeeyankee]

i dont care what anyone says shifting without a clutch you can feel more times then not the shock it puts on sprockets chain gears rear end ect..have to be brain dead not to feel the effect and shock it puts through the bike...all out high rpm drag racing might be a different story...its also a safty issue when riding in the street ...besides its half the fun of riding

Damn I dont ever feel any shock on my sprocket and chain when clutchless shifting my VMAX.... Damn I just looked at my VMAX and noticed I dont have a chain or sprocket.. I GOT JIPPED !! BE BACK LATER I AM GOING TO THE DEALER TO RAISE 2 TONS OF TOTAL HELL! DAMN Shit Stick

 

[Birdoprey]

i dont care what anyone says shifting without a clutch you can feel more times then not the shock it puts on sprockets chain gears rear end ect..have to be brain dead not to feel the effect and shock it puts through the bike...all out high rpm drag racing might be a different story...its also a safty issue when riding in the street ...besides its half the fun of riding

You must not be clutchless shifting correctly. It is extremely smooth when done correctly, and its not at all hard to do, but does take getting the timming right. Easiest way is to preload the shift lever(pull up with your foot, not superhard), while accelerating and just slightly back off the throttle slightly. It'll snick right in. Then AS SOON as it hits the next gear ya gotta get back in the throttle. If you don't get back in the throttle smoothly it will buck and/or jerk. This is where most have issues. Practice it a bit and it'll be second nature.
Safety issue? I've always got my clutch lever covered when riding, so i'm as ready as anyone if a situation should arise. Besides, i seem to be paying attention to one less thing than those that choose to use their clutch on every shift. Also, a large majority of riders get lazy/too comfortable when using their clutch by pulling it in enough(or off time) and end up doing MORE damage. Can you honestly say that you have not(gotten lazy with the clutch)? I know i've done it and i pay more than the usual attention.

 

[Hatter]

The way I figuire it, if I can float the gears of my Eaton-Fuller 13 speed freightliner without problems, then a 5 speed bike isn't a challenge either.

 

[lankeeyankee]

Well bottom line....

I had over 1000 passes on my dragbikes transmission with NONE 0 ZERO Zilch transmission problems and the bike didnt even have a clutch lever on it to use.. Each gear change was made with an air shifter..

So shift clutchless or clutch whatever you prefer..

If you are going to shift clutchless dont pussy foot it, click it into the next gear as you deacclerate

 

[naughtyG]

Yea just go clutchless all the way. In fact, let's just tell all manufacturers there's never been any need for a clutch - just crunch your gears in and out and the tranny will last forever.

 

[lankeeyankee]

Yea just go clutchless all the way. In fact, let's just tell all manufacturers there's never been any need for a clutch - just crunch your gears in and out and the tranny will last forever.

If your VMAX is making crunch noises when you make clutchless shifts you obvisouly shouldnt be riding a motorcycle... Quickly Step Away From The Bike Sir

 

[lankeeyankee]

And while your calling the manufacture tell them to stop making speedos able to read over 70MPH since its the US max speed limit..

 

[clintard]

The reason why you clutch out to shift is to temporarily remove the load on the gears so they mesh easily. "Speed" shifting, as I guess it's called, accomplishes the exact same thing if done correctly. The gears are under load while you're accelerating or maintaining speed, then you blip the throttle and, for a split second, the load on the gears is removed. If you wait another split second, a load will be placed back on the gears, only this time it will be in the form of engine braking. If you can shift during that small window when the gears aren't under load from acceleration or braking, it's the same mechanically as shifting with the clutch pulled - and no damage will come from doing so. As long as your doing it right.

 

[lankeeyankee]

The reason why you clutch out to shift is to temporarily remove the load on the gears so they mesh easily. "Speed" shifting, as I guess it's called, accomplishes the exact same thing if done correctly. The gears are under load while you're accelerating or maintaining speed, then you blip the throttle and, for a split second, the load on the gears is removed. If you wait another split second, a load will be placed back on the gears, only this time it will be in the form of engine braking. If you can shift during that small window when the gears aren't under load from acceleration or braking, it's the same mechanically as shifting with the clutch pulled - and no damage will come from doing so. As long as your doing it right.

Clintard couldnt have explained it any better:clapping: I am very impressed. I didnt want to get to technical trying to explain this but you put it in good wording..
Basically its the same shit, Blip the throttle take the load off. Pull the clutch in take the load off.. Nothing in the tranny / gears change when the clutch is engaged.

 

[vmax626]

I started "speed shifting" when I owned my 81 Honda 900f and it shifted so smooth that I only used the clutch to start and stop and now with the 2000 max ((besides the occasional 2nd gear thing) it`s still a breeze.Ihave to agree with Lankey, if it`s done right there is no strain on the motor or tranny. and if you have that problem, you might still be able to find a HONDAMATIC somewhere:rofl_200::rofl_200::rofl_200::rofl_200::rofl_200::rofl_200::rofl_200::rofl_200::ummm:
<<Dave>>

 

[113s&s]

Damn I dont ever feel any shock on my sprocket and chain when clutchless shifting my VMAX.... Damn I just looked at my VMAX and noticed I dont have a chain or sprocket.. I GOT JIPPED !! BE BACK LATER I AM GOING TO THE DEALER TO RAISE 2 TONS OF TOTAL HELL! DAMN Shit Stick

lol thats why i threw in rear end just for you...in the perfect world if you could bring your bike to the right rpm all the time so theres no load on the gears sure..riding in the city streets you dont get a chance to get to that point most of the time....plus we all know your the best drag race rider in the world and shifting that way would not be a problem...look been riding as long or longer then most... you can feel the stress ...jump...what ever you want to call it when shifting clutch less in the streets...everyone has tryed it and all know what im talking about...except for the super dupper weekend warrior drag racers... ill say it again anyone with half a brain knows its not good for your bike in the long run....lankee whats the best 1/4 mile time you got with your max..you must of ran a 1/4 mile some where..reason i ask how much time could one save using no clutch im thinking there an advantage just want to add it to my best time

 

[vbmike]

Well said Clintard. I just don't find it necessary to use the clutch except for starting or stopping. This jerking and clunking that people are describing just sound like clutchless shifts done wrong. The only time I've experienced this is when I know I shifted wrong because I was on the gas too much or not enough and I agree that this probably would cause excessive wear. When done right it feels and sounds the same as if the clutch was used.

My other bike is a Virago and the tranny has always felt VERY clunky when shifting using the clutch. However, it shifts smooth as silk with the clutch is not used.

I didn't mean to start a big debate but I searched and could find anything on the subject. That's for the info everyone!

 

[lankeeyankee]

lol thats why i threw in rear end just for you...in the perfect world if you could bring your bike to the right rpm all the time so theres no load on the gears sure..riding in the city streets you dont get a chance to get to that point most of the time....plus we all know your the best drag race rider in the world and shifting that way would not be a problem...look been riding as long or longer then most... you can feel the stress ...jump...what ever you want to call it when shifting clutch less in the streets...everyone has tryed it and all know what im talking about...except for the super dupper weekend warrior drag racers... ill say it again anyone with half a brain knows its not good for your bike in the long run....lankee whats the best 1/4 mile time you got with your max..you must of ran a 1/4 mile some where..reason i ask how much time could one save using no clutch im thinking there an advantage just want to add it to my best time

This is almost like talking about oil and which one is better. So I will drop the opinions on clutchless shifting. I dont know about the best in the whole wide world,, in my mind I am the best in my world but we all know how fucked that is. I am just a weekend warrior out playing around on my Frame Flexxing Wobbler on a low budget against some veteran motorcycle bracket racers.
No, I have never ran my VMAX in the 1/4 mile. Why? Cause the VMAX is a slow turd after 70MPH and I dont care to be the slowest bike at the track with the Harleys. Plus running the 1/4 is twice is long and that doubles your chances of fucking something up, and we all know how realibe the VMAX is at the dragstrip... sucks!! So there ya have it no 1/4 mile times quickest 1/8 mile et I believe is 6.30 something at around 112 MPH do the math its about 10.20's on NOS no NOS I run in good air 6.90's @ 100-101 which is about 10.90's-11.0's with my 500.00 1985 wore out engine.

 

[113s&s]

This is almost like talking about oil and which one is better. So I will drop the opinions on clutchless shifting. I dont know about the best in the whole wide world,, in my mind I am the best in my world but we all know how fucked that is. I am just a weekend warrior out playing around on my Frame Flexxing Wobbler on a low budget against some veteran motorcycle bracket racers.
No, I have never ran my VMAX in the 1/4 mile. Why? Cause the VMAX is a slow turd after 70MPH and I dont care to be the slowest bike at the track with the Harleys. Plus running the 1/4 is twice is long and that doubles your chances of fucking something up, and we all know how realibe the VMAX is at the dragstrip... sucks!! So there ya have it no 1/4 mile times quickest 1/8 mile et I believe is 6.30 something at around 112 MPH do the math its about 10.20's on NOS no NOS I run in good air 6.90's @ 100-101 which is about 10.90's-11.0's with my 500.00 1985 wore out engine.

great info i learned there lankee in the 1/8 do you clutchless shift....i remember the few times i ran at the track i used the clutch 11.2 what do you think clutchless shifts times would be...lets assume they where do done correctly and quick

 

[lankeeyankee]

great info i learned there lankee in the 1/8 do you clutchless shift....i remember the few times i ran at the track i used the clutch 11.2 what do you think clutchless shifts times would be...lets assume they where do done correctly and quick

When I was a newb I would use the clutch to shift at the track,, ya know WOT and fan the clutch.... until I watched this guy Tim on a Kawi ZX10 run with his wrist flopping up and down like a sick bird each time he made a shift.. :ummm: I was like WTF? and then learned no need for a clutch on a motorcycle after the launch..

11.2 Newb Shifting... I would say you would drop a .10 -.15 if you shifted clutchless.. so lets say 11.05

The biggest thing also is the RPMS arent jumping.... just think your at redline at WOT and you pull the clutch in.,..... wtf do you think your engine is doing with no load on it for that ...... say .010 jump maybe 200....300.....400 rpms so now when you think you are shiftng at 10K really your seeing 10.4 10.5... Ever watch newbs at the track bounce the rev limiter during shifts... well this is one of the reason engine is revving up over the red line during that clutch pull rather then throttle blipping it...