Dyna 3000 ignition advance chart?

[Birdoprey]

IIRC, someone posted a chart showing the ignition advance of each setting of a Dyna 3000. I've done a search, but find WAAAAY too much to sift through. Does anyone have this?
Also, does anyone happen to have a chart or somesuch showing the stk ignition curve on a V-max?

 

[Birdoprey]

:th_bump_2:

 

[KJShover]

IIRC, someone posted a chart showing the ignition advance of each setting of a Dyna 3000. I've done a search, but find WAAAAY too much to sift through. Does anyone have this?
Also, does anyone happen to have a chart or somesuch showing the stk ignition curve on a V-max?

Here ya go bro;

1985-1989: http://www.dynaonline.com/skins/downloads/instruct/D3K7-7.pdf

1990-2007: http://www.dynaonline.com/skins/downloads/instruct/D3K7-6.pdf

 

[Birdoprey]

DOH! Guess i coulda looked at the Dyna manual! Sorry!!

Thanks for the links though!

 

[RagingMain]

You have to add the advance from the vacuum advancer to that curve.
If you notice it isnt advanced (on paper) as our stock but when you add the vacuum advance it is.

Stock advance is in the manual on page 8-15
3* @ 1000 rpm
43* @ 9000 rpm (full advance 80mm Hg vacuum)

 

[Birdoprey]

Is'nt the dotted line in the Dyna chart WITH the vacuum advance?

 

[RagingMain]

At partial throttle

 

[Birdoprey]

IIRC, You don't get any additional advance at WOT. There is no vacuum.

 

[Fabius72]

Hi guys!
I am at this point as you.
I used all data collected and now I now these fixed points:

by the manual

3? a 1000 rpm 26,7kPa
43? a 9000 rpm 10,64kPa (full advance)

and by Dyna table

3? - 10? @ 1500 rpm

23? - 37.5? @ 2700

27.5? - 38? @ 3100

35? - 43? @ 9000

and then I made this Spark Advance Table

Tell me what do you think about...

 

[Birdoprey]

Fabio,

What are you using as a load reference? TPS or Vacuum? "Looks" like its Throttle position. If so, i don't think that will work well. Looks like you are adding max advance under max load.
The 43deg max advance is only under low load/high vacuum conditions. The dotted line on the Dyna chart shows the MAX advance(at that rpm) under light or low load(high vacuum) conditions. The solid line #1 shows a stk advance curve(with NO additional advance due to high vacuum). Most people that run the Dyna ignition like to use curve #3, which is advanced more than the stk curve. The dotted line is supplemental advance thats added ON TOP OF the "base" advance under light loads(high vacuum).
I was going to start off with curve #3 as my base ignition timing. Then i was going to add the load based timing(based on vacuum read by the map sensor).
Make any sense???


Also, where have you referenced your map sensor? Specifically, how is it connected(#of hoses to what cyls)?

 

[Fabius72]

Also, where have you referenced your map sensor? Specifically, how is it connected(#of hoses to what cyls)?

Hi Mark!
I'm sorry, but I need a lot of time to perfectly understand what did you said.
At the moment I answer only to this your question.
Luca has built these two distributors that connect four manifold.
.

There are four tube with inside a hole 0,5mm
The other two tube M8, are connected by a 6,75mm ID hole, and they connect fuel pressure regulator and MAP sensor.

Tomorrow we will answer to the other questions.

 

[Birdoprey]

Fabio,

Very good. Using only one or two intake ports to reference vacuum will give a very erratic load signal. You've got that figured out. Connecting all 4 smooths out the pulses. Most late model sport bikes tie all 4 manifolds together like you have AND they also add a small vacuum chamber. I think i have one lying around. I'll take a pic and post it up. The vacuum chamber smooths the vac pulses even more and also provides vacuum between pulses.

 

[Birdoprey]

Also, sorry my post was hard to understand. Basically, you need to put the higher advance #'s at the lowest load point, and lowest advance #'s at the highest load point.
Left to right(rpm wise), you are correct. Top to bottom, its backwards. The 43deg advance(in the 9000rpm collum) should be at the bottom(20% load). The 35 deg advance(in the 9000rpm collum) should be at the top(100% load). Then go to the next load point up(from 20%) and put that # at the next load point below 100%. And so on. Do that for each rpm point.

 

[Birdoprey]

I did a spread sheet showing what i'm suggesting. I dunno how to post it. PM me your email address and i'll send it to ya...

 

[Fabius72]

Thanks Mark... you are so kind and patience!
I've big problems with technical words.. all the rest I can understand. So... I need more time to learn all that I don't already know. this is a good way to learn your language!
Luca was thinking to put a "vacuum chamber"... but yesterday I didn't know how explain to you :bang head:

 

[Fabius72]

What are you using as a load reference? TPS or Vacuum? "Looks" like its Throttle position....

You are correct. We are using TPS as a load reference now, but...
we don't exactly know yet what algorithm is really better to use: Alpha-n (TPS) or Speed density (MAP), or together (I prefear, but how? In what way?)

The solid line #1 shows a stk advance curve(with NO additional advance due to high vacuum)

Yes, we know, but we decided tu use first a stk curve to start the engine and make first setup.
After we understood how works all parameters, we'll try other curves.

I was going to start off with curve #3 as my base ignition timing. Then i was going to add the load based timing(based on vacuum read by the map sensor).
Make any sense???

Sorry, but I'm not the right person to ask this :confused2:
As I told, I prefer to use both algorithm, because MAP makes a good reading on the first part of plates movements (with high vacuum), and on the other part only TPS can give useful data (because vacuum is too light).
Unfortunately I can't tell you how do, because I don't know yet.

 

[Birdoprey]

You are correct. We are using TPS as a load reference now, but...
we don't exactly know yet what algorithm is really better to use: Alpha-n (TPS) or Speed density (MAP), or together (I prefear, but how? In what way?)
As I told, I prefer to use both algorithm, because MAP makes a good reading on the first part of plates movements (with high vacuum), and on the other part only TPS can give useful data (because vacuum is too light).
Unfortunately I can't tell you how do, because I don't know yet.

I agree. Pros and cons to each. Actual load can change with out moving the throttle plates(such as when starting to climb a hill). TPS based mapping would do nothing. MAP based mapping can add timming. I think it would work well either way. TPS would prolly be the easiest to do.
I've come to find that even though some things are "better" on paper or in theory, alot of times proves to be no different in the "real world" out on the street or even the track. Sometimes, easier is better or just as good. I'll bet that you can set up two maps, one tps based and one map based(with both tuned well), that you can let 99% of riders try each and they would be unable to tell the difference.

 

[Fabius72]

Hi Mark..
Today I had no time to do my beautiful hobby... now here is 3.15 am!
I received your spread sheet thanks, also your last explanation was so clear!
Tomorrow I'll study tuner software and adjust wrong spark table as you correctly told me.

See ya... I'm going to bed...