Exorcism needed !!!

[PATMAX]

So I did a cosmetic teardown just to do some heavy cleaning. I get it back together and she cranks over nice but no spark. "Dollar Bill" Manny gives me a few CDI boxes to try and nothing. He tells me to check that little square relay just behind the downtube right in front of the CDI box. I change it out and vrroom vroom! Back in business. While with the left side apart I notice my throttle cables are stretched beyaond adjustment so new cables go on. Synch her up with the Carbtune and check my idle mixture screws which are 1/2 to a whole turn IN too far. I set em at two whole turns out. Feels good, nice power, pulls strong everywhere. Park it acouple hours, come back and crank, crank,crank, no spark. Change out the little relay again, vroom, vroom. Great. Next day go to start, no spark! WTF! Come back an hour later, Vroom vroom. Go ride, runs great, about two miles from home it's like like someone turned the key off. Call the old lady to pick me up. When she gets there, I hit the starter, vroom vroom straight home I go. Come out next day, no spark. Come out a few hours later, vroom vroom. I can't trust it to ride pushing distance away from my house. I'm all out of holy water. I tap and knock on the on/off switch housing to either start it or kill it when running to no avail. Ignition works as it should I guess. What else have I forgottel?Clove of garlic and a wooden stake and a cross?

 

[Thevmaxrider]

First thing is to go rub your Mod Monkey, he will put a "Ghost in the machine" to get attention. :rofl_200:Then I would start checking connections. It sounds to me like you have one that either has some corrosion or water in it possibly, either that or could have been lossened during your cleaning. As the bike ran before the cleaning procedure it has to have been something that changed while you were cleaning the bike. I personally HATE electrical gremlins, they are sneaky buggers who change when you think you are close.

 

[PATMAX]

Agreed, something is not contacting as it should. So, I got power or connectivity to everything except coils? Dash works, lights work, starter strong, Kuryakyn voltmeter and battery check out. Could I have overtightened something around the off/on housing when I changed out the throttle cables? Something bad in the ignition? I suppose I could switch out those two items to test. I just got home from work and I bet I can go out there and start it no choke before it even turns over twice! !&$@0@!?/$

 

[Buster Hymen]

What relay is it that you say you changed out a few times?

 

[eatatjoz]

Pick-up coil grounding?

 

[PATMAX]

The relay I changed out is a little square four prong job that slides onto the rubber mount infront of and against the CDI box. I like the suggestion to check coil ground but have no idea how to go about doing it. I think that relay actually excites or opens the pathway for the coils to be energized. I am almost positive one of it's leads are the same color. I moving to night shift tomorrow and will be able to really get in and trouble shoot. I appreciate all the ideas guys. Keep em' coming until I let you know it's fixed. Until then, I am limited to riding up and down my street and it is shorter than a quarter mile! Patmax

 

[naughtyG]

That relay is the starter circuit relay. The things that make it go (and that you might wanna check) are:

- side stand switch
- clutch lever switch
- neutral switch
- kill switch

From what you've described though, it sounds more like a bad contact or bad earth somewhere in your wiring harness. I had a similar problem a few months ago - suddenly I couldn't switch my bike off anymore! Key off, killswitch off etc, and it would still run. Only pulling the main fuse would kill it. I tried fixing it, had most of my harness unwrapped, no go.
In the end I just replaced the harness altogether (was lucky to have a spare one).

Good luck, I think an exorcism might work best..

 

[PATMAX]

Thanks for the suggestions G! I tested the compenents you mentioned and thy all work as designed. Dang I hate the idea of a new harness even though I have several on hand. I am gonna keep tracing the ground idea if I can figure out what grounds are responsible for ignition spark. Might pick up coil be a possibility? or does that just transfer a charge back to the battery? I'll keep plugging away...

 

[naughtyG]

You know, I just realized you're also in the heat of FL. I have a theory, I think something melts in the Max harness when subjected to high heat for a long time: my problem started out of nowhere right after spending almost an hour in really heavy traffic doing about 0-2 MPH in Daytona Beach.
I wish I hadn't dumped my old harness so I could try unwrapping it completely to find out what melted..

On the plus side, swapping harness wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be - most bits unplug from it so all you need to remove is bodywork, seat, airbox, loosen the TCI mount and open the headlight.

 

[ghostntheshell]

may the power of christ compell you!

 

[PATMAX]

So my initial post was April last year. Today is August 2nd 2011 and I still have no spark. Spent half of yesterday with another (smarter) Vmax guy and we put the meter to everything, exchanged parts from working bikes and even created a short in my boost box wiring harness that I did not have when we started! How much longer can I go without my bike. It is getting ugly around my house and I am always in a foul mood and heading toward divorce. I kid you not.
So, I am trying ex VMOA Florida chapter leader Thadd to trouble shoot it. If he can't figure it out, she is getting parted out.
One place we are gonna look is at the pick up coils as we seem to have power to the coils but never get the signal to spark the plugs. Does this thinking sound logical to you guys? I'm guessing that dropping it off at Boxenstopp will cost me a fortune but you never know. Where's my .45 dammit.

 

[[email protected]]

Well if you tested the coils and they test OK then I would say the pickup is a logical next step. Either that or the CDI.

 

[PATMAX]

Pulled CDI from a working bike yesterday and no joy. My old box also started the other bike no problem. I'm a 1990 so two pickup set up and not four like the newer bikes. Maybe the little magnet has gone bad that excites the pick ups? Haven't read anywhere how to test this short of pulling the cover and replacing parts. Anyone know?

 

[maleko89]

Do you have a Dyna 3000 you can borrow? It has an LED that shows p/u activity.

 

[[email protected]]

I'm a 1990 so two pickup set up and not four like the newer bikes. Maybe the little magnet has gone bad that excites the pick ups? Haven't read anywhere how to test this short of pulling the cover and replacing parts. Anyone know?

From the Yamaha Manual:
Measure the pickup coils resistance.
Pickup coil: 110ohm +/- 15% at 20 degrees C (68 degrees F)
(Orange-Black) (Orange-Gray)
(Orange-White/Green)
(Orange-White/Red)

A few pages later it states the following:

PICKUP COIL RESISTANCE TEST
1. Remove:
Seat
2. Disconnect:
5 Pin connecter (Black, White/Red, Orange,White/Green and Gray)
3. Measure:
Pickup coil resistance
Use a Pocket Tester (YU-03112)
Out of specification-Replace

Pickup Coil Resistance:
110 Ohms +/- 10% at 20 degrees C (68 degress F)
(O-B), (O-Gy), (O-W/G), (O-W/R)

Note that difference in percentages. Not sure why they dont match

 

[PATMAX]

Thanks Mike. Found this on page/section 7-23,24,25 in my factory manual. Read it about four times so I think I could attempt it with my multimeter. I am almost resoled to become the Vmax electrical Guru after all this. I don't know if the Forum has an "in house" electron wizard. I know Sean graciously offers the electric grab bag and that is a great service in my eyes. I have two of everything myself but understanding the mystery is important to me too. Well, the bike is in good hands now at Thadd Stevens shop. I'll keep you all appraised of the progress, damage, trials, and successes. I'm gonna be lighter in the wallet no matter what. Can someone retrain me how to ride a Vmax?
PATMAX

 

[twistedmax]

Can someone retrain me how to ride a Vmax?
PATMAX.

Its like a bicycle,once your on it it all comes back!

 

[SpecOps13]

PATMAX: I can bring an AR-45. I think you need to have a Tech Day. :clapping:Sounds like you have your own SkullDuggery.

She's been running great lately. I finished up with all the mechanical / electrical crap a month or so ago. Only an oil leak
still needs attention but it's so slow and I'm in no rush... I should have parted the Damn Bike out. 1166 hours invested. The bike's
had more of my Blood, Sweat and Tears DNA on it than I have inside at any given time...:rofl_200::rofl_200::rofl_200:

Good Luck Bro....

 

[CustomMax]

I'll bet it's the pickup coil, just wish I would have saw your problem sooner. I had the EXACT same problem and I found a brand new one for $215 from a yamaha supplier in Canada. I spent a ton of time, money and aggravation. I went through starters cranking it so much to every relay to switches till I finally broke down and pulled the sidecase the stator's in and tried a loaner from Sean and  it was solved. Please post what it was. I'd bet money it's the pickup coil. Ed

 

[one2dmax]

You can still borrow what you want. Keep in mind if can be TWO items and not one so if you swap a part leave it in until you've swapped them all. Then swap the old parts back in one at a time until it fails and then move to the next part. A bit more time consuming but sometimes the only way to do it. I can even send a complete harness which can be simply laid over the bike and used to check it before you go to the trouble to install it.

Sean