First Dyno run with the Turbo Vmax

[hubeerjw]

Well, I got 4 passes in at the 1/8 mile this past Friday while I was at Conesville. This track is unprepped pavement, but with my 190 Shinko @ 10 lbs I hooked just fine.... too good actually. I needed my wheelie bars, but I left them at home. I had pretty decent 60' times (for me anyway) 1.673 and 1.688 were my two lowest my fastest ET was 6.723 @ 107.68, but my fastest MPH was 111mph @ 7.355 (lots of wheelies in that passunk After the test and tune passes, I let the bike cool down and got it up on the dyno. I was a little bummed with the results, but peaked at just under 160hp and just under 100 ft-lbs of torque. With a 40 shot of NOS, I think my bike was just under 165hp w/ 111 ft-lbs of torque (not positive on the torque) I'll try to scan in the dyno sheet for everyone to see, but I am lean until about 6500rpm then get a little fat, but not too bad at all (around 12.5 : 1 at the richest part) I am planning on going to a larger intermediate jet to richen up the lower rpms (I am using an S&S super B carb on this setup) I should also mention that this is a 1300 venture bottom end with VMax Heads (stock internals) and the Venture pumpkin in the rear. (This was a 4th gear dyno run as well)

I think the boost levels were around 12psi (a little higher than I was expecting, but it kept building and the motor seemed to handle it... for now anyway. The thing that bugged me is that the rev limiter on my DYNA3000 first shut down at 8000 rpms when I had it set to come on at 9500. (the 8000 rpms came from the dyno reading) So I moved the DYNA to the 10k rev limiter and then the dyno showed 8500rpms until the rev limiter hit. I have a Autometer ProComp tach and it shows 1/2 the actual rpms and I honestly don't know what it was reading compared to the dyno (too many other things to look at :bang head So... I may have a little more HP than 160 since it shut down at 8500rpms. The HP curve was still climbing, but the torque curve leveled out around 7700rpms.

Awe hell, I just scanned in the dyno sheet since this whole writing thing is taking so long. I'll post the race results shortly

 

[one2dmax]

I LIKE IT! The hp curve was climbing big time. Def way more HP in it if you rev it on up.

Sean

 

[RagingMain]

Nice build Jeff, good job.:eusa_dance::eusa_dance::eusa_dance:

 

[4gasem]

Sweet! Disappointing peak numbers but you've never really tuned it.

 

[Birdoprey]

Jeff,

Looks like your hp was close to what i mentioned awhile back, which is lower than what i would think your combo SHOULD be(Especially running 12psi!)

You need to be RICHER. 12.5:1 is too LEAN for a turbo bike. It will not live long kept where it is. Normally target 11.5:1 or 12:1 at the leanest. Also, a dyno does not load the bike like pavement will. Normally, one sees more load and boost on the road, so tune on the dyno accordingly(target a richer a/f ratio). I've known several people that tuned their turbo setups(cars and bikes) on a dyno, then cratered and/or melted parts when running on the road.
A rich a/f on a turbo bike will not hurt as much hp as it will on a N/A bike. Error on the rich side.
Personally, i had a 04 Busa with a turbo that i had tuned on the dyno. Initial hp was 216 to the rear wheel(pump gas and 6psi). A/F was BELOW 10:1. Once the bike was tuned (targeting 11.5:1 A/F), i ended up with 220 to the wheel.

Also, what tire did you have on the bike when you dyno'd it? If you had the Shinko, you could have lost 10 or MORE hp at the wheel with it. Don't dyno with that tire on it. It hurts hp(typically lose 10-12rwhp). Been proven. The tire also melts when run much on the dyno. Just FYI

 

[Birdoprey]

Jeff,

Do you know at roughly what rpm you are seeing full boost(what rpm do you first see full boost at)? Where are you referencing your boost signal from(the line running from the waste gate)? Is it T'd and feeding anything else? Have you checked to see if you have any boost leaks? Anyway to pressurize everything after the turbo and check for leaks??? If you have leaks, you will build boost but the turbo will be working harder and creating unwanted heat. Also, check to make sure you have no leaks in your exhaust plumbing from the heads to the turbo itself. Any leaks here will cause the turbo to spool up slowly. Gary had a great idea in swapping the heads around to allow VERY short exhaust plumbing to the turbo. This gets that turbo spooling up MUCH quicker which will make a HUGE difference down low and in the mid range.
Lastly, where did you degree your cams at? Looking at your dyno chart, it looks like peak TQ is much higher than stk. From charts i've seen, it looks like a stk cammed V-max has peak TQ around 6750-7000rpm. Yours is almost 8K where it stops building. Turbos like wide lobe seperation and low #'s. Not too low mind you, but around the stk location is usually very good.

 

[TURBOVMAX]

If you have the cash (steal it) get your self a 42mm flat slide Mikuni and a float bowl spacer from Mr. Turbo over the winter. You won't regret it.

 

[hubeerjw]

Jeff,

You need to be RICHER. 12.5:1 is too LEAN for a turbo bike. It will not live long kept where it is. Normally target 11.5:1 or 12:1 at the leanest. Also, a dyno does not load the bike like pavement will. Normally, one sees more load and boost on the road, so tune on the dyno accordingly(target a richer a/f ratio). I've known several people that tuned their turbo setups(cars and bikes) on a dyno, then cratered and/or melted parts when running on the road.

Also, what tire did you have on the bike when you dyno'd it? If you had the Shinko, you could have lost 10 or MORE hp at the wheel with it. Don't dyno with that tire on it. It hurts hp(typically lose 10-12rwhp). Been proven. The tire also melts when run much on the dyno. Just FYI

Thanks for the info on richening up the bike.. I have lots of different jets to play around with... just getting less and less time :bang head:

I was running the Shinko Ultra Soft 190 at 10lbs of pressure (I basically rode it from the track over to the dyno machine) Why would that tire affect the HP?

 

[hubeerjw]

Jeff,

Do you know at roughly what rpm you are seeing full boost(what rpm do you first see full boost at)? Where are you referencing your boost signal from(the line running from the waste gate)? Is it T'd and feeding anything else? Have you checked to see if you have any boost leaks? Anyway to pressurize everything after the turbo and check for leaks??? If you have leaks, you will build boost but the turbo will be working harder and creating unwanted heat. Also, check to make sure you have no leaks in your exhaust plumbing from the heads to the turbo itself. Any leaks here will cause the turbo to spool up slowly. Gary had a great idea in swapping the heads around to allow VERY short exhaust plumbing to the turbo. This gets that turbo spooling up MUCH quicker which will make a HUGE difference down low and in the mid range.
Lastly, where did you degree your cams at? Looking at your dyno chart, it looks like peak TQ is much higher than stk. From charts i've seen, it looks like a stk cammed V-max has peak TQ around 6750-7000rpm. Yours is almost 8K where it stops building. Turbos like wide lobe seperation and low #'s. Not too low mind you, but around the stk location is usually very good.

I decided to reply to each post individually to try and keep things somewhat organized. As far as the full boost goes, no, I'm not positive where full boost came in at, and I would swear to this day, that I kept seeing it climb as the RPMs increased.

I do need to do a little "plumbing" check I'm sure there are a few places that leak a little in the exhaust. If I don't send the bike down to Morley (so he can play with it) I'll be tearing it down and get things cleaned, painted, etc. and I hope to really pay attention on the re-assembly.

About the degreed cams.... all stock baby!!!! I have stock valves, springs, cams, rods... and yes even pistons.... I cringe when I see that turbo spooling up unk: so far, so good.... I have about $500 in the motor, so this is more for fun and experimental to see what a stock motor can take.

Anyway, keep asking questions and maybe I'll have a decent bike one of these days!!!


Oh, and I weighed the bike tonight... right at 525lbs... this isn't a super accurate scale, but it should be close.
So the bike is 525 lbs + Me (in gear) @ 235lbs = 760lbs

Thanks!

Jeff

 

[Birdoprey]

Thanks for the info on richening up the bike.. I have lots of different jets to play around with... just getting less and less time :bang head:

I was running the Shinko Ultra Soft 190 at 10lbs of pressure (I basically rode it from the track over to the dyno machine) Why would that tire affect the HP?

Phew! Had to change that color! Was blinding me! Yes, that tire will hurt your hp on the dyno. It is too sticky when it gets hot. It also will literally melt on the dyno if doing any tuning(sustained loads). Especially at that low of pressure. Too much rolling resistance. Don't take my word for it, ask some well known dragracers and/or tuners(Psychobike.com would be a good place to ask). It'll hurt your hp on the dyno.

 

[Birdoprey]

If you can not turn the boost down and keep it down, you may be having whats called boost creep. Several things can cause this, one of which is the wastegate and/or wastegate port feeding the wastegate is not large enough to bleed enough pressure to maintain a lower boost level. Have you verified that the wastegate is working? I can't remember, but does that wastegate have only one port to attatch to? The previous owner may have been running mondo boost. I can't recall if the wastegate spring is replaceable in that wastegate. He may have installed a stout spring and you may not be able to adjust it down?

 

[TURBOVMAX]

I doubt he's blowing the tire away on the dyno... may be that the clutch is slipping. Are you running a lock-up clutch?

 

[hubeerjw]

I doubt he's blowing the tire away on the dyno... may be that the clutch is slipping. Are you running a lock-up clutch?

I'm running the Double D clutch, so there may be a little clutch slippage, but I doubt there is much.

 

[TURBOVMAX]

I'm running the Double D clutch, so there may be a little clutch slippage, but I doubt there is much.

Shouldn't slip with the Double D at that Hp level. Turn the boost up! The difference between 12 and 15 PSI is big. That's when you start making some real heat... of course with those pistons you may hole them. Are you interested in buying a nice set of 1260 Arias Turbo Pistons? 8.5 - 1 compression ratio. Their used... but look minty fresh. Combine those with that stroker setup we're working on this Winter and make some big power.

 

[Birdoprey]

I doubt he's blowing the tire away on the dyno... may be that the clutch is slipping. Are you running a lock-up clutch?

I don't think he was blowing the tire away either.

 

[hubeerjw]

Gary, I may be interested in the pistons... I really want to get the chain drive mod going on first. I don't think this motor will last too long, but hey, you never know. Let me know what you want for them and I'll see what I can do. It may not be in the budget with our first kid on the way (due in December) but we'll see what I can sneak past the Mrs. That stroker motor is going to be one bad a$$ motor!!!! I can't wait to see how this thing is going to turn out.

Jeff

 

[TURBOVMAX]

Gary, I may be interested in the pistons... I really want to get the chain drive mod going on first. I don't think this motor will last too long, but hey, you never know. Let me know what you want for them and I'll see what I can do. It may not be in the budget with our first kid on the way (due in December) but we'll see what I can sneak past the Mrs. That stroker motor is going to be one bad a$$ motor!!!! I can't wait to see how this thing is going to turn out.

Jeff

Congratulations! Family is most important... babies are expensive! But worth every dime. We'll be doing a chain drive conversion to go along with that stroker So maybe you can get it done much cheaper with the info I hand out. I'll dig the pistons out and take pics... they are nice. Didn't have them in the bike for more than 10 passes and had to go bigger of course. You can have them for 200.00 if you'd like. You'll need to but rings and clips ... Sean can help out with that.