First Gear "Creep" With Clutch Disengaged

[VMike]

My 05 with aprox.16,000 miles has been almost impossible to find neutral once the engine is warm and from using the "search" I guess I'm not alone. The last week or so I noticed my bike starting to creep forward in first gear while stopped with the clutch disengaged after the engine warmed up.I could keep the bike from moving just by putting my feet down but I noticed it was getting worse and really annoying since I can't find neutral after the engine is warm.:bang head: I've never had to add any fluid to the clutch reservoir so I didn't have any leaks to speak of but today decided to remove the reservoir cover and inspect the fluid. The fluid was black and cloudy so I used a Mighty Vac and drained and flushed almost a full Mighty Vac container of Valvoline synthetic DOT 3&4 fluid through the system until it was clear. Happy to report that after the engine is fully warm I have no more creep(clutch is fully disengaging) and I can actually find neutral now when the engine is hot and the bike is at a stop.Don't know if I had some air or the fluid change did the trick but I'm stoked and wanted to pass this along.
Mike

 

[Rand-5107]

Brake fluid should be changed every couple of years.

 

[Fire-medic]

Hygroscopic brake fluid=absorbs water, deteriorates the performance of the brake fluid & promotes contamination of the fluid as well as corrosion in the system. It lowers your boiling point of your fluid which you would be more likely to encounter in a heat-generating system like your brake system.

So, have you checked your brake reservoir since you did the clutch?

 

[VMike]

I agree. I got my bike in November of last year and was told that all servicing had just been done.That probably means that the reservoirs were just topped off and may have been that way since new I don't know. It was hard for me to tell just by looking into the sight glass but now that the fluid is clean pretty easy to see the difference.The brake fluid looks about the same so I need to change it out too.
Mike

 

[VMike]

Fire-medic,
The brake fluid looks about the same so doing it too.
Mike

 

[Fire-medic]

Fire-medic,
The brake fluid looks about the same so doing it too.
Mike

You are a good man to jump right on it. We need our brakes! Yes you are right, they just topped-off the fluids, which is 'servicing' it. It isn't what we want to do for the long haul. If you didn't change the filter & oil, sounds like you can add that to your list. Might as well replace the gas filter while you're at it. Check (change?) the rear diff. axle grease, replace the air filter, and while you are in the spirit, maybe repack the wheel bearings & check the steering head bearings for grease. Lotsa stuff, but it sounds as though you may be on the track of deferred maintenance.

Look at the electrical updating process, inspect the wires to the regulator/rectifier, & the connections (my connections crumbled-apart when I was replacing the R-R), solder the taped-up main harness connection with the factory crimp, run another ground, all the stuff in the maintenance-how to section.

Keep track of what you find and report back with your work successes.

 

[robike_75]

My 05 with aprox.16,000 miles has been almost impossible to find neutral once the engine is warm and from using the "search" I guess I'm not alone. The last week or so I noticed my bike starting to creep forward in first gear while stopped with the clutch disengaged after the engine warmed up.I could keep the bike from moving just by putting my feet down but I noticed it was getting worse and really annoying since I can't find neutral after the engine is warm.:bang head: I've never had to add any fluid to the clutch reservoir so I didn't have any leaks to speak of but today decided to remove the reservoir cover and inspect the fluid. The fluid was black and cloudy so I used a Mighty Vac and drained and flushed almost a full Mighty Vac container of Valvoline synthetic DOT 3&4 fluid through the system until it was clear. Happy to report that after the engine is fully warm I have no more creep(clutch is fully disengaging) and I can actually find neutral now when the engine is hot and the bike is at a stop.Don't know if I had some air or the fluid change did the trick but I'm stoked and wanted to pass this along.
Mike

I had the same problem a few weeks ago. I bleed the system with fresh fluid and the problem went away. When I saw your post I was going to tell you this, but I see your way ahead of me. Mike

 

[VMike]

Thanks for the tips Fire-medic and thanks for the feedback Mike.
Well I just got back from a longer ride and while the creep in first gear is gone finding neutral doesn't seem to be any easier.:bang head: Man I was hoping that problem was solved.
Does anyone know if the "hard to find neutral" problem existed on a brand new V Max or happened over a period of miles/time? Just curious.
Anyway,back to the drawing board on that one.

Also Fire-medic: Have put about 3,000 miles on my bike since November and have changed the oil twice.First time with Yamalube and Yamaha oil filter and just changed with Rotella T and Mobil 1 oil filter. Also got one of the steering head wrenches from Dingy and adjusted my steering head bearings due to a decel. wobble at aprox.45-50 mph. No more wobble. I do need to change out the diff. oil and check on the battery cable(crimp fix). Bike has stage 7 with four K&N filters and they look great. I did replace the clutch friction plates and bead blast the steel plates right after I got the bike.Come to find out the clutch was fine but the PO had changed the oil to full synthetic causing the clutch to slip. Anyway,I'm learning more every day about this beast and I wouldn't know anything with out this site and the guys that come here. A big thanks to everyone who shares here,
Mike

 

[Fire-medic]

Guys like Sean and Captain Kyle make their livings doing this stuff, I am a hobbyist/enthusiast.

You are on-top of things, sounds like I can ask you for advice!

We all like to hear of problems & how they are solved so we can perhaps fix it more quickly if it happens to us!

 

[VMike]

Thanks Fire-medic and I agree that it's all about sharing experiences and problem solving that makes this place so awesome. I've owned and ridden Harleys the last 25 years and have been riding almost 42 years.This is my first V Max and I absolutely love it..... despite not being able to find neutral.:rofl_200:
Mike

 

[tugla]

hey man i had the same same thing for last 2.5 yrs. i chg fluid, rebuilt slave cylinder which it needed and had no air bubbles and it was still there. i rebuilt the master and it helped but was still off. well i just put a new clutch master and it works perfect, like a new stock bike, find neutral no prob even when way hot, shifts super smooth,worth the cash to have the headach go away finally. u might get it better with the little things but i bet you need a master. the slave is a fast cheap fix so maybe try there but if your banging your head after doing it all now you know it will help.

 

[ouchez]

Mike,

I have an 05 with 18,000 miles and no creep but my fluid has been changed last season and once before that. I bought and installed Speed Bleeders and they are great.

AS to neutral when hot, usually somewhat hard to find while running, don't try that often though.

I use Valvoline 10w40 motorcycle oil and KN oil filter.:clapping:

O

 

[VMike]

Thanks Tugla! Your info is great and will probably save me a lot of headaches. So you tried the rebuid kit but it really didn't work that well?Where did you get the new one?

O - Thanks man! Nice to hear my 05 is not the only one with hard to find neutral.Did you get yours new and has it always been that way?

Mike

 

[gamorg02]

my N is a pain to find after doing the DD, wasn't before... goes in easy if you try to find it before you come to a stop though.

 

[acammer]

my N is a pain to find after doing the DD, wasn't before... goes in easy if you try to find it before you come to a stop though.

That part is key, getting into neutral before coming to a stop. Most clutches of this design have some degree of drag to them, which is always worse when hot, and makes find neutral difficult because the system is always loaded to some degree even with the clutch disengadged. I usually need to give a little rev as I'm sliding the bike to neutral, which changes the load on everything for a second, and usually lets me out of gear real easy. Without that blip, or at least being rolling along, it's a real pain.

 

[VMike]

As hard as neutral is to find now I won't be doing the DD. lol!Thanks for the tip Garret.

Cammer that is the ONLY way I find neutral when hot and that sometimes doesn't work for me. lol!

I think I read where an FJR clutch master will work on the V Max and has a little larger bore. Not sure if that would really help or not. I've gone with Yamalube 10w30, and Shell Rotella T 15/40 for oil changes.I'm going to try the Rotella 5/40 synthetic on my next change and see what happens.
I'm not giving up and just living with this "hard to find neutral" problem.
Mike

 

[MaxMidnight]

If the issue is that you are not getting enough lift to allow the clutch pack to free up then a larger diameter master that displaces more fluid would help.
In theory this would increase the distance the slave piston could move thus freeing up the clutch pack which would help in finding neutral.
But the is a cost (isn't there always?) - the lever action would be heavier, which in traffic, could be a pain....literally!

 

[tugla]

well man i did the rebuilt with yamaha clutch master service kit and it got me to about 90% perfect. the master was well worn and i figured that last 10% was due to that, the old piston was worn and think it took its toll on the inside bore. i would hear the ever so faintest escape of air when i pulled in the clutch lever(bike not running) so not sure the rebuild sealed correctly, it didnt leak:ummm:

anyways from http://partsfinder.onlinemicrofiche.com/metricpartsoutlet/Yamaha_OEM/YamahaMC.asp?Type=13&A=497&B=37

is where i got it, this link to the 05 master.

i got two bikes and they find N perfectly, no need to roll ( maybe once in a blue moon,cause as explained by others with the loading of gears), ok when hot so no need to settle it should work smooth.

rotella 15w40 in both seems to help

 

[VMike]

Thanks Steve! Makes sense on the larger bore size and more lift.I'm going to try a rebuild kit first and if that doesn't work upgrade to an FJR master .As far as heavier lever action I can handle that.I've been riding Harleys the last 25 years.lol Plus I won't have to sit at stops with the clutch lever pulled in like I do now not being able to find neutral which is also a PIA. lol

Tugla thanks a lot for the link to the parts and info. My bike isn't that old so I may try just rebuilding the master with a kit first and see how it goes.If the bore isn't too bad might get away with that. Not to keep bugging you about your Weber Carb Syncrometer but if you get a chance to look at the model # that would be cool.Almost positive it's the Weber STE-SK but just want to be sure. Also I'm running the Rotella T 15/40 now and going to try the synthetic 5/40 next change and see if there's a difference. Thanks and will keep you all posted on results!
Mike

 

[wlodek1980]

often gently releasing the clutch helps with changings gears/finding the neutral at the standstill, assuming everything gear-change wise works on the bike. or just select neutral before coming to a halt.