grinding when trying to start

[jstone8952]

not sure if this is the right place to post this but ive been investigating a problem starting for a little while now and am stumped.

about a week ago i started getting a kind of slapping noise when starting the bike. sounded like it wasnt getting a good bite on the starter or idleer gears. it still started after a few taps on the start button but i was in the process of moving so it didnt receive immediate attention.

i let the bike sit for 4 days while moving and yesterday when i came out to start it i could hear the starter spinning freely (no contact)
i shook the bike back and forth and rocked it and it would catch intermittently and turn over but was very difficult to get started. i assumed the starter clutch or idler gears were bad and i pulled the side cover off to check them out- the damn things look brang new. all dogs are good, good contact, everything aligned properly...

so uh... wtf?

 

[PATMAX]

I know there are a ton of posts here if you search function. Some have referred to it as the "box of rocks" sound. Maybe the the bolts or starter clutch itself. One has to pull the cover and remove the piece to look for cracks around the bolt holes. There are lots of associated pictures too which help a lot.

 

[jstone8952]

ive done the search and checked the bolts holding the starter gear to the flywheel. what im asking is what else could cause the box of rocks sound. gears bolts and everything are fine.

 

[PATMAX]

Perfect project for Tech Day in two weeks in Oldsmar. You need to be there but you might want to contact Kyle first to make sure he has any needed parts like gaskets, replacement parts.

 

[jstone8952]

i think ive met him- hope it can wait til then. whats weird is when its been running n hot its alot easier to start

 

[ninjaneer]

if the flywheel setup is fine, then perhaps the starter and the battery need addressing

Regards from my Taptalking Hercules Android

 

[broook]

Same thing happened to me so I took everything apart and couldn`t find anything wrong:bang head: I didn `t want all the parts laying around the shed so I put it back together. That was over two years ago and [touch wood] I never had a problem since.:ummm:

 

[naughtyG]

If I was you I'd start by trying to jump start the bike with a car battery. If that works it'll mean you have a battery and/or a charging problem.

 

[CaptainKyle]

I would bet that if your battery is good that if you pull that starter clutch off you will find a crack in it .

 

[alorio1]

I would bet that if your battery is good that if you pull that starter clutch off you will find a crack in it .

+1, I agree.....

 

[PATMAX]

Starter clutch crack +1
In the case of the assembly removed and reassembled with no parts change, I would suspect there is a crack and retightening the three bolts is holding the thing together more securely. It's probably on borrowed time. Only a guess though as are all my repairs! Just like the dealership! LOL

 

[jstone8952]

so it wouldnt starr after work yesterday... girlfriend came and gave me a jump- started right up. has a new battery abd rectifier... guessng theres a charging issue. beginning to hate this bikes gremlins

 

[jstone8952]

ok so i may have figured this out...
i rewired my dash a while ago, new tach and manual fan switch. for a few weeks the switch for the fan hasnt been working and fan has stayed on. bike had been starting fine and it didnt seem to require immediate attention. i just pulled the cluster and disconnected the fan and it started fine.

my question is if the fan is on when starting could the draw of current rob the starter and cause the solenoid to not fully engage?

 

[ninjaneer]

very interesting. this bike has a "hot start" problem that hangs over it. in order to stay clear of it, it is generally understood and accepted by the community that one should keep the battery adequately charged by optimizing the charging system. my opinion, i dont think many share it, is that keeping the battery at max charge is necessary so that the starting system can overcome the demand placed on the battery by the fan. i have no scientific measurements to support my argument, just educated guesses based on observations. ya i know it doesn't take much to slap on an ammeter. perhaps i subconsciously dont want to find out that my "more wakeup juice mod" doesnt provide as much juice as i hope. lol.

Regards from my Taptalking Hercules Android

 

[jstone8952]

ive got a rectifier from an 08 ninja, a brand new battery, headlight cutoff, manual fan switch and 3 extra grounds for the battery. At startup the only thing getting any juice is the ignition system.

 

[jstone8952]

so i pulled my starter out and it looks terrible. one pf the brushes had broken loose of the solder and wasnt making contact, there was black dus. everywhere and the 3 poibts of contact were eaten up so bad that the ends on the ring were black and corroded and the rear casing has pits in the metal where the 3prongs on tje ring make contact.

possibly my problem? lol

 

[ninjaneer]

so i pulled my starter out and it looks terrible. one pf the brushes had broken loose of the solder and wasnt making contact, there was black dus. everywhere and the 3 poibts of contact were eaten up so bad that the ends on the ring were black and corroded and the rear casing has pits in the metal where the 3prongs on tje ring make contact.

possibly my problem? lol

good find. rebuilding it is a snap. it's too early in the morn to think, do you have the latest kind? if not, maybe this is a good time upgrade?

Regards from my Taptalking Hercules Android

 

[jstone8952]

yeah mines a 2 brush. i just did what i could w it and stuck it back in. i found a brand new 4 brush for cheap so im upgrading in a week or so. hope it fixes it