harley question

[gamorg02]

hey guys got a 1999 sportster and i think someone ground down part of the part of the brake lever that activiates the piston on the m/c. Anyone have the same master cylinder/lever combo that could take a detailed pic of the bump that pushes on that piston? looks like '96-'07 big twins and '96-'03 sportsters all use the same levers.

Thanks!

 

[Boostmax]

That might be an aftermarket lever that allows for "brake assisting". Not sure exactly how they term it. Basically I know that on my bagger, when I pull my brake lever, I can lock up the front with the lever no where even close to the bar, still way out. And the lever doesnt move very far at all. The lever is stiff, the braking control isnt great, and it take a HANDFUL to really stop when you need to. I'm a decently big guy and I reaally have to giver her all I got in my right arm to hit the brakes hard.

So there is an easy way to remedy everything I described above.

Imagine that the stock setup only requires the lever to move 25% in before the lobe on the lever has moved the M/C to brake at max load.

Now if you modify that lobe, you can have the brake lever travel 100% before the modified lobe on the lever has moved the M/C to brake at max load. You now have much easier braking, more control/precision over braking force.....much better setup.

I assume you're having a problem with the braking force being insufficient with the lever pulled all the way in. Purge you lines and check your pads. The problem most likely isnt the lever, rather some slop/flex/freeplay has surfaced somewhere. If you cant find what is worn or out of spec, sure, maybe going back to the original lever will act as a band aid and do the trick for you....

 

[gamorg02]

That might be an aftermarket lever that allows for "brake assisting". Not sure exactly how they term it. Basically I know that on my bagger, when I pull my brake lever, I can lock up the front with the lever no where even close to the bar, still way out. And the lever doesnt move very far at all. The lever is stiff, the braking control isnt great, and it take a HANDFUL to really stop when you need to. I'm a decently big guy and I reaally have to giver her all I got in my right arm to hit the brakes hard.

So there is an easy way to remedy everything I described above.

Imagine that the stock setup only requires the lever to move 25% in before the lobe on the lever has moved the M/C to brake at max load.

Now if you modify that lobe, you can have the brake lever travel 100% before the modified lobe on the lever has moved the M/C to brake at max load. You now have much easier braking, more control/precision over braking force.....much better setup.

I assume you're having a problem with the braking force being insufficient with the lever pulled all the way in. Purge you lines and check your pads. The problem most likely isnt the lever, rather some slop/flex/freeplay has surfaced somewhere. If you cant find what is worn or out of spec, sure, maybe going back to the original lever will act as a band aid and do the trick for you....

thanks for the reply man. braking power is actually great. the issue i'm having is small at best, anal at worst heh. basically since theres no spring on the lever it will stay where it 'contacts' the piston on return if you know what i mean. so if i brake it will stay that 1/4-1/2" 'in' and my hand nicks it when i goto reach for the throttle so i have to push the lever out a bit when i go and reach back for the throttle. it looks like the nub on the lever may have been ground but it could be casting marks since the contact point is still 'chrome'. the quality on the lever looks 'meh' so i was wondering if they were replaced with aftermarket crap one at some point. this was my late uncles bike so unfortunately there is not much maint/info on it aside from what he told me or my dad.

 

[SpecOps13]

Check this site. My Sportster is an 05 so, it's not the same as yours...

http://xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/index.php

Good Luck,
Dave

 

[CaptainKyle]

thanks for the reply man. braking power is actually great. the issue i'm having is small at best, anal at worst heh. basically since theres no spring on the lever it will stay where it 'contacts' the piston on return if you know what i mean. so if i brake it will stay that 1/4-1/2" 'in' and my hand nicks it when i goto reach for the throttle so i have to push the lever out a bit when i go and reach back for the throttle. it looks like the nub on the lever may have been ground but it could be casting marks since the contact point is still 'chrome'. the quality on the lever looks 'meh' so i was wondering if they were replaced with aftermarket crap one at some point. this was my late uncles bike so unfortunately there is not much maint/info on it aside from what he told me or my dad.

The Harley Masters spring gets weak in them although they will still brake great it does not push the lever all the way back out. I have rebuilt my fare share of them for that single reason.

 

[gamorg02]

Check this site. My Sportster is an 05 so, it's not the same as yours...

http://xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/index.php

Good Luck,
Dave

thanks dave. i'll do some looking around there as well. i've been lurking some forums (but not signing up) looking for information and ran into some very interesting views on things. seems a lot of owners are scared to even troubleshoot stuff on their bikes (from the few things i've seen) and short of tire pressure bring their bikes to a DEALER ONLY for any issue.

The Harley Masters spring gets weak in them although they will still brake great it does not push the lever all the way back out. I have rebuilt my fare share of them for that single reason.

that could make sense too. what kind of mileage we talking about? this one has 22k and i imagine its never been rebuilt so the spring is probably at least 13 years old..

seems like i could get a full kit for like $8:

http://www.debrix.com/Front-Brake-Master-Cylinder-Rebuild-Kit-for-1996-u-p/45455-m1.htm

 

[CaptainKyle]

thanks dave. i'll do some looking around there as well. i've been lurking some forums (but not signing up) looking for information and ran into some very interesting views on things. seems a lot of owners are scared to even troubleshoot stuff on their bikes (from the few things i've seen) and short of tire pressure bring their bikes to a DEALER ONLY for any issue.



that could make sense too. what kind of mileage we talking about? this one has 22k and i imagine its never been rebuilt so the spring is probably at least 13 years old..

seems like i could get a full kit for like $8:

http://www.debrix.com/Front-Brake-Master-Cylinder-Rebuild-Kit-for-1996-u-p/45455-m1.htm

I have rebuilt them with as little as 5,000 miles on them

 

[gamorg02]

I have rebuilt them with as little as 5,000 miles on them

wow, nuts. i found aftermarket rebuild kits for $8 from debrix and could get oem for like $35~ it seems. have u seen any difference between the two?

 

[CaptainKyle]

wow, nuts. i found aftermarket rebuild kits for $8 from debrix and could get oem for like $35~ it seems. have u seen any difference between the two?

Sorry I have only used the oem kits so not sure about the others.

 

[gamorg02]

yea i probably shoudl as well. i def think its the spring as u said though the brake light won't turn off now either unless i manually push it out.

where is the switch on these? i didn't see it in my 2 second inspection.

 

[CaptainKyle]

yea i probably shoudl as well. i def think its the spring as u said though the brake light won't turn off now either unless i manually push it out.

where is the switch on these? i didn't see it in my 2 second inspection.

The switch is inside the switch control housing be careful when removing & reinstalling the lever the switch only has a little tit that sticks thru & it is easy to break. If you break it you have to cut the wires inside the housing & solder a new one in since there is no plug on it.

 

[gamorg02]

ah fuck okay. there was a little plastic piece on the inside near the plunger today. switch still worked though just the lever didn't return. i'll take a look when i get home.

 

[gamorg02]

BIG thank you to capt kyle. I would have never thought the spring in the m/c woulda gone bad in 22k miles. Rebuilt the master and it feels incredible. Interesting lessons learned:

1- Harleys use DOT 5. rebuild kit was only $32 (oem) fluid was $9!
2 - DOT 5 is purple
3 - Old DOT 5 can look like 3/4 as it looses the purple color. The fluid might have been original or at least quite a few years old
4 - mityvac wouldn't work on the bleeding but old school method worked great.

thanks again everyone.

2 follow up questions:

1. just incase there was 3/4 fluid in there and i flushed with dot 5, whats any symptoms of 'contamination' to look out for?
2. how the hell do u check the fluid level with the sight glass being on the reservoir cap?

 

[CaptainKyle]

BIG thank you to capt kyle. I would have never thought the spring in the m/c woulda gone bad in 22k miles. Rebuilt the master and it feels incredible. Interesting lessons learned:

1- Harleys use DOT 5. rebuild kit was only $32 (oem) fluid was $9!
2 - DOT 5 is purple
3 - Old DOT 5 can look like 3/4 as it looses the purple color. The fluid might have been original or at least quite a few years old
4 - mityvac wouldn't work on the bleeding but old school method worked great.

thanks again everyone.

2 follow up questions:

1. just incase there was 3/4 fluid in there and i flushed with dot 5, whats any symptoms of 'contamination' to look out for?
2. how the hell do u check the fluid level with the sight glass being on the reservoir cap?

Thanks Gomorgo2 If you mix dot 4 & 5 you will know it pretty quick it will turn into gell. The sight glass is goofed up basicaly just to tell if there is anything in there. There is a raised portion inside the MC that you fill it up to. Harleys used to use Dot 5 there back to 4 now so make sure you look if your working on a diffrent Harley.

 

[gamorg02]

Thanks Gomorgo2 If you mix dot 4 & 5 you will know it pretty quick it will turn into gell. The sight glass is goofed up basicaly just to tell if there is anything in there. There is a raised portion inside the MC that you fill it up to. Harleys used to use Dot 5 there back to 4 now so make sure you look if your working on a diffrent Harley.

gel, ie the brakes will stay on or not work all together, right?

yea the sight glass seemed pretty fucked up.

i know what you're talking about with the 'raised portion' easy enough and i think thats where it is anyways. I ended up hitting the switch back when i was first messing with it but all i did was break of the very end of the rubber cover (or what it appears to be) so the light goes on within the first 1/4" of lever movement which is fine by me. not worth taking the whole thing apart.

big DOT 5 lettering on the master cover, if i didn't see that 3/4 synthetic woulda gone in. good to know then switched back though at some point. any reasons why u think they went with 5 then went back?

 

[CaptainKyle]

gel, ie the brakes will stay on or not work all together, right?

yea the sight glass seemed pretty fucked up.

i know what you're talking about with the 'raised portion' easy enough and i think thats where it is anyways. I ended up hitting the switch back when i was first messing with it but all i did was break of the very end of the rubber cover (or what it appears to be) so the light goes on within the first 1/4" of lever movement which is fine by me. not worth taking the whole thing apart.

big DOT 5 lettering on the master cover, if i didn't see that 3/4 synthetic woulda gone in. good to know then switched back though at some point. any reasons why u think they went with 5 then went back?

Went back to Dot 4 because of antilock brakes dot 5 airenates(hope I spelled that right) to much .

 

[gamorg02]

makes sense. brakes still work (in the garage) so as long as they're working tomorrow we should be good to go.