How light are the *lightest* street legal Vmax's coming in?

[Holeshot]

Gotta be legal. And please, nothing in the $1B range, y'know .. keep it reasonable in cost. No titanium spokes on chaindrive converted /no front brakes drag bikes here. I'm just curious as to how light one of these can be made? Some parameters to stay inside of are:

*** Single seat = YES. Solo is where I'm going on this one. And jsyk, I'm a small fry. 5' 6"/150. So the seat needs to be kinda small/narrow anyhow for my "honkey narrah ass" anyway (as Fred Sandford would say! Haahaa!). To give you an idea, my current ride has a steel 8"x12" seat with half-inch-thick neoprene padding 3M'd to it. I raced flattrack/TT until my 40's and MX/desert as well. So you know what I'm tolerant of now. Teensy race-inspired seats are ok. 90 minute leg lengths are about all I'm good for no matter HOW good a seat is anyhow (healh issues).

*** "Bobbed" rear end = OK. Not like so many idiots with a Sawzall do it. Y'know .. no YouTube Specials here. But a racing rear end is totally cool. Sortof modern race bike looking, or even the traditional Bobber look is col too (short rear and sassy fender showing LOTS of tire). So the sissy bar can go as well.

*** No front fender = OK. Same thing as the rear .. kept tasteful.

*** Out here in Az. I do not need turn signals on bikes. So there's four hunks of stuff gone, plus all of the associcated wiring/switching.

*** Only need one mirror as well.

Umm .... I think that's about it. So you can see what "kind" of bikes could fit inside the limits of this question.

So how light can one of these Vmax's get? Total budget under $3K or so (added to the price of the bike)? I don't crap money and my golden goose flew off with an insurance salesman from Jersey.

Thanks so much!

:ummm:

 

[[email protected]]

Aftermarket exhaust is probably the #1 way to shed weight. The stock system is about 40lbs. A kerker is about 15 (guesstimates)

Ditch the metal inner fender and stock tail light, Install some kind of LED light bar in its place. That should save 5 lbs

Centerstand can go away. Not sure what it weights. 3-5 lbs?

Remove signals, not sure what they would weigh in at. Probably not much more than 1.5 lbs for all.

Remove stock passenger seat, cut down the driver seat as much as you want, buy a rear tail section. Not sure how much weight you'd loose there. Wouldn't be much for the amount of money invested. Looks cool though

Other way to save weight would be chain drive and custom rear wheel.
http://www.pcwracing.net/page4.htm
You said that is a no go though....

Wheels are another way to loose weight but they are NOT cheap. They will probably make the most noticeable difference though.

I wish I had weights on all these parts. I've got them all sitting around the shop but I have no scale.

Stock, the bike is around 625lbs.

 

[gamorg02]

cazz wheels would be key.

 

[Rollie]

With a $3 k budget and a lot of time , you should be able to save 80-100 lbs w/o major sawzall work .

Exhaust , centerstand , wheels . Motor is heavy , no way around it . Shaft drive is a lot heavier than chain drive , but not cheap to convert . Most everything else is 2-5 lbs to change out , but more $ is involved with lighter , aftermarket accessories.

How low do you need to go ? If not drag racing , do you want it lighter to go through the twisties or just lighter to hold up ? If it leans too much , few can keep it from touching the pavement. unk: I like C.F. , but it costs $ .

 

[one2dmax]

Lose the passenger foot peg brackets and pegs. Make a simple thin flat bracket to mount the regulator too. Get an early regulator without fins (not as good though).

Smaller sportbike type pegs (cheap on ebay). Mill or "hole" the peg mounts
Kerker Header with no baffle.
Stage seven eliminator tubes and get rid of the servo and black control box.
No signals.
No crown.
Fiberglass scoops.
No side covers.
Cut seat and flip down.
Fiberglass Faux tank cover.
No Speedo or bicycle speedo.
Single brake caliper on front.
85 front wheel or aftermarket wheels.
No front fender though you may want to keep the brace
Early Forks or Smaller forks from another model with even smaller tubes
No Headlight or Smaller Light
Simple Bar Riser and Clamp instead of the shaped riser of the vmax. Something like the Fazer used.
No fan or motor if not going to have stop/go traffic and sending unit.
Remove Clutch and Stator inserts and weld holes shut. Venture stator insert is smaller
Single Brake line and no splitter on front
Smaller rear rotor and smaller caliper
Mill out rear wheel some or lighter rear wheel (as mentioned the chain drive conversion).
Trim wiring to remove signal circuit.
Sidestand relay and switch (remove wiring)
Clutch Switch
Remove and rewire hand electronics. Start button only. Eliminate key switch and use smaller switch.
Cut down handlebars
Mill or "hole" top triple (bottom does most of the work)
Smaller fuel tank
Aluminum bolts for most covers/non structural areas
No tool kit
Cut off rear subframe and weld tabs on to bolt on sportbike subrame (which is aluminum). Will need to add some back in for swingarm pivot strength
Smaller Dia shocks or even better use chrome moly struts
Smaller or LED taillight
Remove plastic shield from tank and other rubber shields around engine
Single throttle cable (though no safety then for sticky throttle
Cut down brake/clutch lever
Smaller masters
Braided lines
Shorten brake stay on rear and rotate forward (check line length which can now be shorter).
Remove plastic shields from rear wheel and diff.
Smaller tires
and more

 

[johnpclynch]

COP coil conversion, there's four big stock coils you can dump

Smaller battery, replace the scoops with aftermarket plastic ones?

 

[Holeshot]

Thanks guys. I figured there was much that coul be done. I only said "no chain drive" because I'd read that it cost somewhere around $4k. That's fine, but now we're gwetting into seious budget issues. $4k for ONE mod. Hmm. So anyhow, that's why I said "no chains".

And thanks for the help on what could be done (are shocks with Cr/Mo shafts lighter? Cr/Mo is not lighter than steel, i's just stronger allowing one to make thins withless material .. therefor "lighter". Is reducing shock shaft diameter and such a good ROI?).

I have a lathe, mill, TIG, MIG. The TIG is 250amps AC/DC (a 30 year old Miller DialarcHF that I've been maintaning since new). So that should be enough to weld-up the aluminum rear end pieces that wre mentioned (I'd have to see them, but it's nothing serious, I'm sure it will be no issue).

In any case ... so what are your lighter bikes coming in at? I know someone said that a good 80 to 100 can be taken off. (nice looking tail kit btw!). Keeping it *turnable* would be my preference. Too low ... not so good. Granted where I live there are few turns at all ....

Oh look ... A CORNER!!! ... Looks like a REALLY TIGHT ONE too! :rofl_200:

Heheh .. but anyhow we actually DO have mountains with some EXCELLENT carvable roads (Julian Mountains aka "The San Diegos" .. halfway between Yuma and San Diego) .... as well as some really beautiful desert crossings like these below ...

(Below) .. our house is right out there in that community in the foothills.

(below) Our "driveway" so to speak is off to the left in this shot..

(below) ahh the neighborhood ...

So in any case as youcan see *Ze Tvisties* are few and far between here. Fargin PERFECT Vmax territory. Nearly "salt flats" type roads and environment. Just stay out of view from Homeland Security ..

.... these useless checkpoints are everywhere. It is completely impossible to leave Yuma wihout getting your vehicle searched and the dog's nose sniffin' around in places (on your body) that you really don't want dogs sniffin' around! It's just so invasive, reminds me of when I was in the Air Force in Nuclear Security in Germany. Crossing "the line" (in Berlin) for various reasons required these invasive searches done by the Commies. So these searches done here on our turf are SO MUCH like those during the Cold War getting in and out of Communist controlled areas ... these days it's exactly like simply leaving Yuma. Shame. So anyway, you can understand my disdane for these searches. You just feel *violated*. It feels like some sort of Orwellian "police state" around here at times.

Bla bla ...

Thanks for the input folks. As you can tell, lowering the bike 1 to 2 inches wouldn't be too objectionable.

Soooo ...... what are some of your lighter bikes coming in at (wet)? And how do they *feel*? Is it a heavy feeling 550lbs? My wife's 1982 XJ650J Maxim is only about 40 pounds lighter than my Magna, but it feels about a buck lighter! So is there something like that going on with the Vmax? (Note that I am a Maxless punk at present).

Thanks .. sorry about the rambling post. I find it tough to be brief sometimes.

 

[Rollie]

Lose the passenger foot peg brackets and pegs. Make a simple thin flat bracket to mount the regulator too. Get an early regulator without fins (not as good though).

Smaller sportbike type pegs (cheap on ebay). Mill or "hole" the peg mounts
Kerker Header with no baffle.
Stage seven eliminator tubes and get rid of the servo and black control box.
No signals.
No crown.
Fiberglass scoops.
No side covers.
Cut seat and flip down.
Fiberglass Faux tank cover.
No Speedo or bicycle speedo.
Single brake caliper on front.
85 front wheel or aftermarket wheels.
No front fender though you may want to keep the brace
Early Forks or Smaller forks from another model with even smaller tubes
No Headlight or Smaller Light
Simple Bar Riser and Clamp instead of the shaped riser of the vmax. Something like the Fazer used.
No fan or motor if not going to have stop/go traffic and sending unit.
Remove Clutch and Stator inserts and weld holes shut. Venture stator insert is smaller
Single Brake line and no splitter on front
Smaller rear rotor and smaller caliper
Mill out rear wheel some or lighter rear wheel (as mentioned the chain drive conversion).
Trim wiring to remove signal circuit.
Sidestand relay and switch (remove wiring)
Clutch Switch
Remove and rewire hand electronics. Start button only. Eliminate key switch and use smaller switch.
Cut down handlebars
Mill or "hole" top triple (bottom does most of the work)
Smaller fuel tank
Aluminum bolts for most covers/non structural areas
No tool kit
Cut off rear subframe and weld tabs on to bolt on sportbike subrame (which is aluminum). Will need to add some back in for swingarm pivot strength
Smaller Dia shocks or even better use chrome moly struts
Smaller or LED taillight
Remove plastic shield from tank and other rubber shields around engine
Single throttle cable (though no safety then for sticky throttle
Cut down brake/clutch lever
Smaller masters
Braided lines
Shorten brake stay on rear and rotate forward (check line length which can now be shorter).
Remove plastic shields from rear wheel and diff.
Smaller tires
and more

A lot of thought and experience went into this reply . Maybe it should be kept as a stickie in case Seans brain goes into overload from all our questions and needs ? :clapping:

 

[[email protected]]

Sean was referring to removing the shocks and running solid struts in place of shocks.

Wheels are the one mod that will make the most difference in making the bike "feel" lighter.

Still working on my project which includes some of what we are talking about. No where near completion so I can't comment too much on how it all translates into a final product.

 

[Holeshot]

Lose the passenger foot peg brackets and pegs. Make a simple thin flat bracket to mount the regulator too. Get an early regulator without fins (not as good though).

Smaller sportbike type pegs (cheap on ebay). Mill or "hole" the peg mounts
Kerker Header with no baffle.
Stage seven eliminator tubes and get rid of the servo and black control box.
No signals.
No crown.
Fiberglass scoops.
No side covers.
Cut seat and flip down.
Fiberglass Faux tank cover.
No Speedo or bicycle speedo.
Single brake caliper on front.
85 front wheel or aftermarket wheels.
No front fender though you may want to keep the brace
Early Forks or Smaller forks from another model with even smaller tubes
No Headlight or Smaller Light
Simple Bar Riser and Clamp instead of the shaped riser of the vmax. Something like the Fazer used.
No fan or motor if not going to have stop/go traffic and sending unit.
Remove Clutch and Stator inserts and weld holes shut. Venture stator insert is smaller
Single Brake line and no splitter on front
Smaller rear rotor and smaller caliper
Mill out rear wheel some or lighter rear wheel (as mentioned the chain drive conversion).
Trim wiring to remove signal circuit.
Sidestand relay and switch (remove wiring)
Clutch Switch
Remove and rewire hand electronics. Start button only. Eliminate key switch and use smaller switch.
Cut down handlebars
Mill or "hole" top triple (bottom does most of the work)
Smaller fuel tank
Aluminum bolts for most covers/non structural areas
No tool kit
Cut off rear subframe and weld tabs on to bolt on sportbike subrame (which is aluminum). Will need to add some back in for swingarm pivot strength
Smaller Dia shocks or even better use chrome moly struts
Smaller or LED taillight
Remove plastic shield from tank and other rubber shields around engine
Single throttle cable (though no safety then for sticky throttle
Cut down brake/clutch lever
Smaller masters
Braided lines
Shorten brake stay on rear and rotate forward (check line length which can now be shorter).
Remove plastic shields from rear wheel and diff.
Smaller tires
and more

Yup .. cool. This all sounds about like what I usually like to do to what I ride.

So what kind of weight reduction does this yield?

And I was asked "why lighter?" in another post up there ...

Why not? I've usually found it a better way to have a faster/funner bike. I'm small but not weak. I have little trouble picking up my Magna (475 wet, just had to figure out a technique to getting it tipped upwards using just my legs). So it's obvously not my EGO (erps ... did I just say that out loud? .. I meant to say my strength .. haahaa!!). Kidding aside .. I just want a "general use" bike, but trim off all of the "apologetic covers" and other such lawyer prevention parts on the bike, make it as light as my wallet allows (the $3k limit) and ride it. Basically the same idea as the true Cafe Racers had, as well as the true Bobber builders here in the US. Remove anything that doesn't make it go/turn/stop, keep the $$$$ part somewhere between sane and in trouble with the wife. Call it good and ride it.

So I guess it should lean more towards a street legal drag bike (we used to call bikes/cars like that a Pro Street). Keep it a bit taller than a full-on strip machine so it will turn a little. Give the suspension some travel. But tastefully remove any of the mainstream/showroom fluff and other such stuff, put some money where it will do most good (wheels, exhaust, tailpiece) and spend whatever time it takes to do the required labor. A year? Two? More? More like .....

..... Bikes like these are never truly "done". I find I'm ALWAYS "almost there" with it! I've been on the Magna for a solid year now and I'm always changing something to keep me content. My tastes lean toward bikes of the Pipeburn type. Getting one of my bikes into Pipeburn would be like getting my picture in Cycle News when I used to race!

Haa!



PS: The MAgna is in total terdown again (except for the engine .. it's fine). So here it is in mockup .... it looks horrible but give me a little time ....

(the day we brought it home)...

Currently ... mocked up fuel tank and many other things .. the bars, seat, etc ..

Still welding on the rear end. All new shock mounts, adding gussets to the frame, etc ..

Dechromed the stock wheels and powdercoated them. I had to make all new "drive cush's" out of red urethane shock eyes on the lathe for the rear wheel. The stock ones were pretty shot (and never ever were sold by Honda) so we had to make some. Came out pretty good, so did the old school drilled backing plate ...

Getting there ...

Not much left of the original Magna stance or riding position left at all. I hope to be back on the raod by the end of summer.

Still have a ways to go until it's up to the standard in my head. And .. gotta work at night to avoid all of this ...

Summer winds ..

And of course, the heat ..

 

[KJShover]

Here is an old thred on weights, some as low as 570lbs. My max is now comming in about 593 wet.
http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?p=92914&highlight=weight#post92914

 

[4gasem]

Dialarc HF... There's an oldie but a goodie... Antique compared to todays technology, but built to last.

I'm in the welding industry and was a certified Miller tech for 5 years. Been DEEP inside Dialarc and Dialarc HF machines. You'd LOVE the new ones...

Good luck with the progress. I need to weigh my bike. We have scales at work so it'd be easy to do. I haven't even taken it out this year and don't think I will.

Chris

 

[Rollie]

Jim , did you ever weigh Toxic ?

 

[MaxMidnight]

Weigh saving for wheels:

Std Max Rear + tyre (half worn) 34lb
Dymag + new Bridgestone BT020 31lb

Std Max front + tyre (less disks) 28lb
Dymag + part worn Corsa 21lb

You could also drill the bolts (have a look at the R1 caliper mounting bolts) where alloy isn't suitable.

Run with minimum fuel.

Loose weight yourself and only wear Speedos when riding (yes, I know that is a stupid idea but I'm getting desperate for ideas! )

 

[johnpclynch]

Loose weight yourself and only wear Speedos when riding (yes, I know that is a stupid idea but I'm getting desperate for ideas! )

I don't want to see you in speedos :biglaugh:

 

[Rollie]

Lose weight ?

 

[Thevmaxrider]

Jim , did you ever weigh Toxic ?

I keep meaning to, but just never have the time or forget when I am near a scale. I am wondering if I could just weigh each wheel on a 300lb scale and add the two numbers to come close????? Know I am well under 600lbs. Am going to google truck scales in my area and see if I can hop over and get a weight.......

 

[Thevmaxrider]

Weigh saving for wheels:

Std Max Rear + tyre (half worn) 34lb
Dymag + new Bridgestone BT020 31lb

Std Max front + tyre (less disks) 28lb
Dymag + part worn Corsa 21lb

You could also drill the bolts (have a look at the R1 caliper mounting bolts) where alloy isn't suitable.

Run with minimum fuel.

Loose weight yourself and only wear Speedos when riding (yes, I know that is a stupid idea but I'm getting desperate for ideas! )

Have been changing the bolts on Toxic over to titanium ones from Pro Bolt. Am to the point now where I am shaving grams.... guess the rider could loose 50lbs and that would help LOL. I do like the look of the Ti bolts too, can get them in gold to match the detail work on the bike!

 

[srk468]

I keep meaning to, but just never have the time or forget when I am near a scale. I am wondering if I could just weigh each wheel on a 300lb scale and add the two numbers to come close????? Know I am well under 600lbs. Am going to google truck scales in my area and see if I can hop over and get a weight.......

From messing with my race cars I can tell you those truck scales aren't always accurate at weight as minimal as where you'll be at, might be harder to find but see if you can find a set of real race scales or at least a scale only calibrated to read 1000lbs or so. The theory behind this is you wouldn't use your bathroom scale to balance your pistons would you? I know truck scales might be the only thing available to you but try to find something else if you can because a scale for weighing a 100,000lb truck isn't going to be super accurate at under 600lbs, good luck bro! :biglaugh:

 

[srk468]

Have been changing the bolts on Toxic over to titanium ones from Pro Bolt. Am to the point now where I am shaving grams.... guess the rider could loose 50lbs and that would help LOL. I do like the look of the Ti bolts too, can get them in gold to match the detail work on the bike!

I know what you mean, I'm a big boy too but even when I'm fairly lean I can only get down to about 240 :bang head: I am NOT fairly lean right now though!! LOL I want to try to be back in that range again next year cause that 40lbs (about 280 now) is a free ET gain!