How To: Update older model shift segment

[yukonerdave]

There is a stickied thread about this upgrade HERE, but I thought a step-by-step with pics might be helpful. I gather that pre-99 model vmax's have a shitty segment that is prone to fail. More than one guy has called this upgrade one of the best things you can do for an older Max. I took it entirely on their word - haven't had her running yet to see if its made any noticeable difference, but at least I don't have to worry about it failing in the future.

I was pretty intimidated by the thought of pulling the clutch in order to do this one myself, but it really wasn't so bad. For tools you will need:

-5mm allen key
-T30 torx
-10mm socket
-12mm socket
-1 3/16ths socket (that's one [inch AND 3/16ths] socket, not one 3/16ths socket)

For parts you will need:

4NK-18185-00-00 SEGMENT Qty: 1
93604-12037-00 PIN, DOWEL Qty: 5
93604-16092-00 PIN, DOWEL Qty: 1
3JP-15462-00-00 gasket crankcase cover Qty: 1
and maybe a 90151-06013-00 torx bolt to replace the one you're gonna take out (it is prone to stripping)

Drain the oil before starting!

Start by removing the cover screws, in a criss-cross pattern. Before doing this, you'll need to remove the footrest and rear brake assembly:

Be prepared to catch some more oil when you remove the cover. Remove the old gasket (I had to scrape parts of it off with a knife), and take note of the two small dowels in the 10:00 and 2:00 holes. Now remove the diaphragm spring retainer plate by slowly loosening the bolts, again in criss-cross pattern:

Once the bolts are out you will remove the retainer plate, the diaphragm spring, and a large ring spring seat:

The pressure plate immediately behind these can also slide out:

Now you can pull out the pushrod in the center, and also a small steal ball right behind it. I had to use a small magnet to grab the ball:

All of the clutch plates can now be removed. Make sure that you keep them in the same order - the outermost one in particular is different from the rest and must be put back in the same place. Also note their alignment. I replaced them according to the Haynes manual, which says to align the ridged tooth on each friction plate with the two dots on the outer housing, and then to align the wide gap on the outermost plate in the same place (refer back to this pic on re-install if needed):

There is a large nut in the center that need to be removed. First, bend back the tabs on the lockwasher:

Now you need that big 1 3/16ths socket. Easiest way to get it seems to be just by pulsing it with an impact gun. I have a cordless electric impact and it worked fine. Alternately, you can find something to hold the inner housing with so that it doesn't move when you turn the nut (maybe an oil filter wrench?). Remove both the nut and the lockwasher:

Slide off the clutch center and the washer behind it (I still had a few plates on it but yours should all be off and together):

And now you can slide off the final outer housing:

Should look like this:

Note the 6 tabs on the segment (I arrowed two of them). If your segment has failed these tabs may already be pressed outward, and one or more of the pins behind the tabs may have fallen out. Make sure they are all accounted for. Before you can remove the old segment, you need to bring the shift shaft forward to make room. In order to do this, remove the clamp bolt on the other side of the bike where the shift lever connects to the crankcase:

With that bolt removed, you should be able to loosen the "fingers" from the shift segment and bring the entire shift shaft forward to make room. I also released the spring but I'm not sure that was necessary (note that I already have the new segment installed in this pic):

CAREFULLY remove the torx bolt holding on the old segment. The head is pretty soft and it is in there tight, so I guess it is easy to strip it. I got lucky, but I could feel it slipping a little.

With the bolt removed, pull out the old segment along with the star behind it, being careful not to let it fall apart. Now you need to assemble the new segment. You will need the smallest rod from the old unit, the five new short rods, and the one new long rod. Fortunately, it looked to me like there is really only one way to make this thing go together, so I don't think you can get it wrong. Here's what it should look like:

The star, then, sits on top. You can place the new unit back in, resting the small circle "finger" into the odd shaped groove of the star:

And that's it. Everything goes back in reverse order. Remember the order and alignment of the clutch plates: you put a friction plate in first (the ones with the large outer "teeth", aligning the double-notched tooth with the two dots on the outer housing. Follow this with a plain plate, and then another friction plate, aligned the same way. Continue this until you finish with the outer friction plate, aligning the wide grooved tooth with the other double-notched teeth.

At least, this is how Haynes describes the order and alignment. If there is another way to do it, or if it really matters, I'd sure like to know.

You're done - go crack a cold one, you deserve it!

 

[one2dmax]

Nice write up. If you take a look at the end of the shift shaft you will see a dimple which lets you line up the clamp correctly to keep the shifter in it's original alignment. Usually there will be one plate and steel that is held in place on the inner basket by a thin wire. This is not needed to be removed.

You can take the big nut loose as noted and pull the entire inner basket out with plates and all which is easier then trying to reach in with pics or screwdrivers. Once out you can pull the stack off as needed to get ready to reinstall it.

The half notch in the segment is the nuetral position.

Be careful when reinstalling the outer basket as it needs to full seat to both the crank gear and the small plastic gear on the back (which is the oil pump drive gear). When it's far enough back the splined washer will slide on the shaft and then float loosely on the shaft past the splines.

The clutch plates do need to be aligned to the small dots in the basket edges. There is a single dot and a double dot. The single notch lines up to the single dot and so on. The steels will have a sharp edge and a rounded edge. Either way is fine but make all of them the same.

There is a line up dot on the pressure plate too.

I don't normally take the covers and basket apart in criss cross pattern but it does go back together that way. It doesn't hurt to take it apart that way if desired.

DO NOT try and hold the inner basket with a screwdriver or bar as you will break an ear or post very easily and those parts aren't cheap. Don't forget about the small ball bearing or you won't have any clutch action. It will get hard as a rock and not do anything.

The DD mod is easily installed during this repair too and virtually the same procedure less the segment.

Sean

 

[yukonerdave]

Ordered what I need for the "Double D" mod, so I'll ad some pics when I go back and do that. Thanks again Sean!!!

 

[yukonerdave]

I said I would add pics for the DD upgrade, but really everything you might need is on here already. Very easy to do. Here are the instructions (from vmaxoutlaw.com):

This modification utilizes two of the stock diaphragm springs to increase tension on the clutch plates and improve clutch holding power. It is the least expensive and a very effective way of improving the stock V-Max clutch. The only negative aspect is the increased lever pull needed to operate the beefed-up clutch. Depending on your hand strength, this can be a bit tiring in stop and go traffic.



Place the bike on the side stand (not the center stand). You do not need to drain oil to perform this modification, most of it will run to the opposite side of the engine. To help this you can place the bike on a sloped driveway with the side stand on the downhill side.

Remove the clutch cover and gasket. Catch any dripping oil with a pan.

Remove diaphragm spring by removing the six 6mm hex bolts with a 10mm socket. Next, remove the aluminum pressure plate.

Remove the clutch plates one at a time, using a 90 deg pick or coat hanger. Inspect the friction plates for wear and the steel plates for over-heating (blue discoloration). Keep the plates in order for assembly.

At his point you can bead-blast the steel plates if necessary for extra grip. If the plates appear worn or 'smooth' this is probably a good alternative to purchasing new ones.

Look inside the hub and you'll find the ends of a retaining wire that holds the clutch damper plate in place. Remove the wire by pushing the ends back through the holes in the inner hub.

With the wire removed you can pull the full sized steel plate out. Now you can see the narrow friction disc, small wave washer and thin steel plate under the wave washer. Discard the friction disc, wave washer and thin steel plate, as they will be of no further use.

Get a new friction disc (Yamaha P/N 26H-16307-00) and put a small amount of engine oil on the new plate. Slide it in where the small wave washer used to be. Install the large steel plate and forget about the wire - you don't need that either.

Install the clutch plates in the order that you removed them. Look at each steel plate and observe that the edges are slightly rounded on one side and not on the other. This is due to the die cutting process. Install the plates facing all the same direction (rounded sides in or out) regardless of the original direction they were installed.

Install the pressure plate and diaphragm spring along with the second diaphragm spring on top of the original.

DO NOT torque the six 6mm bolts to factory specs as outlined in the service manual. Doing so will most likely snap a bolt off in the clutch basket requiring removal with an Easy-Out. Place Loc-tite Blue (removeable) on the cleaned threads of each 6mm bolt and install with 1/4" ratchet (with 10mm socket) until snug.

Install the new clutch cover gasket (P/N 26H-15462-00-00) and cover. Don't over tighten the cover. Start your V-Max and check for leaks.

 

[yukonerdave]

Ok one question

I just got into this again and I notice that with the Double D mod my outside pressure plate is NOT sitting flush against the clutch plates. I can wiggle it back and forth (before installing the springs and tightening everything of course. It is engaged with the teeth of the gear behind it. When I turn it, the steel plates spin but the friction plates stay still. Is this OK, or does it mean I've installed something wrong? It feels like the pushrod is keeping it from resting flush against the clutch plates, but it won't go in further (without force anyway).

 

[one2dmax]

It sounds like you don't have the "DOT" on the pressure plate lined up with the "Dot" in the edge of the inner basket (it will be over one of the raised bolt bosses).

Sean

 

[yukonerdave]

Got er figured out. Thanks, Sean

 

[[email protected]]

I see two dots on the outer basket but a single dot on the pressure plate. Does the single dot on the pressure plate line up with the double dots on the basket or does it go 180 off of that and line up with the single notch on all of the friction plates?

EDIT:
I did not notice that anyone had mentioned the lineup dot on the inner clutch basket. The part that engages the steels. Sometimes referred to as the clutch center or boss I think. There are a bunch of dots on the "gears of it" but there is one dot that is different from the rest. I'm guessing that single dot of the inner clutch basket should line up with the single dot on the pressure plate. The plate will only fit this way or 180 from this dot. The single notch on the frictions line up with these dots, and all of this should be 180 off of the two dots on my outer clutch basket?

 

[yukonerdave]

Sounds like you got it Mike. On the fourth pic down you can see the dot on the pressure plate lining up with the deeper dot on the inner basket (you gotta look closely). The entire inner basket (along with the steel plates) should turn while the outer basket and the friction plates stay stationary, so it doesn't matter that it is 180 degrees from the two dots on the outer basket. Hope that makes sense

 

[[email protected]]

Yep, makes sense Dave. I think I put it together correctly. Thanks

 

[one2dmax]

The dots on the outer basket are for lining up the friction plates. Note the picture above shows the 2 dots and the plates with a double notch in them.
Sean

 

[rattheroach]

There is a stickied thread about this upgrade HERE, but I thought a step-by-step with pics might be helpful. I gather that pre-99 model vmax's have a shitty segment that is prone to fail. More than one guy has called this upgrade one of the best things you can do for an older Max. I took it entirely on their word - haven't had her running yet to see if its made any noticeable difference, but at least I don't have to worry about it failing in the future.

I was pretty intimidated by the thought of pulling the clutch in order to do this one myself, but it really wasn't so bad. For tools you will need:

-5mm allen key
-T30 torx
-10mm socket
-12mm socket
-1 3/16ths socket (that's one [inch AND 3/16ths] socket, not one 3/16ths socket)

For parts you will need:

4NK-18185-00-00 SEGMENT Qty: 1
93604-12037-00 PIN, DOWEL Qty: 5
93604-16092-00 PIN, DOWEL Qty: 1
3JP-15462-00-00 gasket crankcase cover Qty: 1
and maybe a 90151-06013-00 torx bolt to replace the one you're gonna take out (it is prone to stripping)

Drain the oil before starting!

Start by removing the cover screws, in a criss-cross pattern. Before doing this, you'll need to remove the footrest and rear brake assembly:

Be prepared to catch some more oil when you remove the cover. Remove the old gasket (I had to scrape parts of it off with a knife), and take note of the two small dowels in the 10:00 and 2:00 holes. Now remove the diaphragm spring retainer plate by slowly loosening the bolts, again in criss-cross pattern:

Once the bolts are out you will remove the retainer plate, the diaphragm spring, and a large ring spring seat:

The pressure plate immediately behind these can also slide out:

Now you can pull out the pushrod in the center, and also a small steal ball right behind it. I had to use a small magnet to grab the ball:

All of the clutch plates can now be removed. Make sure that you keep them in the same order - the outermost one in particular is different from the rest and must be put back in the same place. Also note their alignment. I replaced them according to the Haynes manual, which says to align the ridged tooth on each friction plate with the two dots on the outer housing, and then to align the wide gap on the outermost plate in the same place (refer back to this pic on re-install if needed):

There is a large nut in the center that need to be removed. First, bend back the tabs on the lockwasher:

Now you need that big 1 3/16ths socket. Easiest way to get it seems to be just by pulsing it with an impact gun. I have a cordless electric impact and it worked fine. Alternately, you can find something to hold the inner housing with so that it doesn't move when you turn the nut (maybe an oil filter wrench?). Remove both the nut and the lockwasher:

Slide off the clutch center and the washer behind it (I still had a few plates on it but yours should all be off and together):

And now you can slide off the final outer housing:

Should look like this:

Note the 6 tabs on the segment (I arrowed two of them). If your segment has failed these tabs may already be pressed outward, and one or more of the pins behind the tabs may have fallen out. Make sure they are all accounted for. Before you can remove the old segment, you need to bring the shift shaft forward to make room. In order to do this, remove the clamp bolt on the other side of the bike where the shift lever connects to the crankcase:

With that bolt removed, you should be able to loosen the "fingers" from the shift segment and bring the entire shift shaft forward to make room. I also released the spring but I'm not sure that was necessary (note that I already have the new segment installed in this pic):

CAREFULLY remove the torx bolt holding on the old segment. The head is pretty soft and it is in there tight, so I guess it is easy to strip it. I got lucky, but I could feel it slipping a little.

With the bolt removed, pull out the old segment along with the star behind it, being careful not to let it fall apart. Now you need to assemble the new segment. You will need the smallest rod from the old unit, the five new short rods, and the one new long rod. Fortunately, it looked to me like there is really only one way to make this thing go together, so I don't think you can get it wrong. Here's what it should look like:

The star, then, sits on top. You can place the new unit back in, resting the small circle "finger" into the odd shaped groove of the star:

And that's it. Everything goes back in reverse order. Remember the order and alignment of the clutch plates: you put a friction plate in first (the ones with the large outer "teeth", aligning the double-notched tooth with the two dots on the outer housing. Follow this with a plain plate, and then another friction plate, aligned the same way. Continue this until you finish with the outer friction plate, aligning the wide grooved tooth with the other double-notched teeth.

At least, this is how Haynes describes the order and alignment. If there is another way to do it, or if it really matters, I'd sure like to know.

You're done - go crack a cold one, you deserve it!

Got the bits, put them in , job done, thankyou for your help

 

[355cid]

Great Stuff, especially the part about grabbing a cold one! Thanks.

 

[gamorg02]

okay so question on the shift shaft removal. my seal may be leaking. once the selector mechanism is released does the shaft only come out thru the clutch side? my shaft itself is wicked pitted and whatnot so i'd have to clean it up before trying to slide it thru a brand new seal.

 

[tugla]

are you doing the shifter upgrade? i didnt pull out my shift shaft, just loosened it so you can get a little wiggle room and moved things over to get the shifter segment out, think i took off one of the springs to make it easier to hold away.

 

[[email protected]]

Yes, only way shift shaft is coming out is from clutch side. Not sure if it would be possible on the shift shaft but in some circumstances you can remove a seal by threading a drywall screw or other screw, or just using a pick thru the face of the seal and yanking it out. If so that would eliminate the need to open up the clutch. Could maybe clean up the end of the shaft without removing it?

 

[gamorg02]

are you doing the shifter upgrade? i didnt pull out my shift shaft, just loosened it so you can get a little wiggle room and moved things over to get the shifter segment out, think i took off one of the springs to make it easier to hold away.

i have an '03 its already upgraded, my oil seal just may be weaping.

Yes, only way shift shaft is coming out is from clutch side. Not sure if it would be possible on the shift shaft but in some circumstances you can remove a seal by threading a drywall screw or other screw, or just using a pick thru the face of the seal and yanking it out. If so that would eliminate the need to open up the clutch. Could maybe clean up the end of the shaft without removing it?

not sure if i can clean it without removing it unfortunately. at least removing the clutch side i can put it on the sidestand and not loose any oil. i'm not convinced its a leak yet as it may just be residual from the middle gear cover leak i was having as i had to leave that cover off for 3-4 days

 

[tugla]

i have an '03 its already upgraded, my oil seal just may be weaping.



not sure if i can clean it without removing it unfortunately. at least removing the clutch side i can put it on the sidestand and not loose any oil. i'm not convinced its a leak yet as it may just be residual from the middle gear cover leak i was having as i had to [COLOR="Red"[COLOR="red"]l]eave that cover off for 3-4 days[/COLOR][/COLOR]

hahaha must be doing the CR oil change versionunk:unk: nothing wrong with that

 

[gamorg02]

hahaha must be doing the CR oil change versionunk:unk: nothing wrong with that

haha the CR oil change woulda been to remove all side covers from engine and oil pan.

 

[forestry62]

Youkon, Thanks for your quick response and the great pictures and info...............I just had a new clutch installed last summer 2010. Do you think new clutch was up graded by yamaha with a new segment since it was a new clutch ? ............Thanks , Ken( forestry62).:bang head: