Installing an oil pressure gauge

[firefly]

My understanding is that we place the fitting close to the oil level glass,
But this will only measure the general pressure in the crank case below the cylinders and this pressure is actually the back pressure of the cylinders as they go down and not the oil pressure in the oil passages, if that is the case then it is of no value to measure such pressure and the reading in the gauge is not oil pressure at all .
Am I missing something?
firefly
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Mercedes-Benz W111

 

[one2dmax]

My understanding is that we place the fitting close to the oil level glass,
But this will only measure the general pressure in the crank case below the cylinders and this pressure is actually the back pressure of the cylinders as they go down and not the oil pressure in the oil passages, if that is the case then it is of no value to measure such pressure and the reading in the gauge is not oil pressure at all .
Am I missing something?
firefly

Yes, you are missing something. You remove the plug that is behind and down from the site glass (I believe it is a 10mm allen). This accesses the main oil pressure galley. If you were to start the bike with this plug removed you would be amazed at how far the oil will shoot out of there and the enusing "exxon valdez" oil spill would get environmentalists from all over paying you a visit.

Expect it to peg the gauge when you first start it and the oil is cold and thick. Then with it warmed up you can start to measure your pressure. With a freshly rebuilt engine we see 10lbs of pressure for each 1000 rpm (using the kawi o-ring anyway). basically 10lbs at idle and then when you rev it you will watch the gauge spike up and down to your rpm's.

Anyway, It won't necessarily save your engine if you have a sudded oil pressure drop but it can help make the repairs much less and carefull attention can detect abnormalities before any catasrophic failure actually occurs.

Later,
Sean Morley

 

[mikemax04]

If you are serious in getting a new Max when it comes out Ibrahim, don't bother with the pressure gage. It's of little value since you won't get the REAL pressure the pump puts out. I've had mine for 2 years now and do find it interesting to observe. At idle mine shows no pressure at all when hot and am now running 20W50. Wether there is any difference in pressure if gage is on handlebar or down below I couldn't really tell you but if so it must be minor. Mine is a 2004 with 7K miles and NO abuse. Am I worried about the "dreaded O ring"? Not in the least but if you have nothing to worry about and are looking for something, concentrate on something else besides the ring. It's a non issue.

 

[one2dmax]

It's a non issue.

Whatever you say. Every engine I have taken apart for repair has had the o-ring displaced. You can bet on it that you have lower oil pressure if it is not in place and doing it's job. Let's compare here:

You have a fuel line - now lets poke a fairly good size hole in it. Sure the bike is going to run, but you are also not going to have the fuel pressure that you should have.

If you look at the system, the oil is pressurized into the filter then returned to flow through the system, This is where it has the issue. When it is returned to be delivered to the engine it has a partial hole in it. Since liquid of any kind tends to flow through the path of least resistance you are going to get a loss in pressure until there is less resistance to go ahead and go on into the engine.

So, lets say you had 10lbs of pressure available. You may have 5 lbs of it going out the leak and the remaining 5 entering the engine. Not exactly what the engineers had planned. I don't know the exact loss but there is a loss none the less. Not only that but the pressureized oil squirting into the pan tends to "airiate" (not spelled right) the oil and cause bubbles which are hard for the pump to handle.

I say again, You go ahead and treat it how you wish. I'm sure you are a capable person. I am going to treat it as it should be and that is a potential problem.

Sean Morley

 

[mikemax04]

"Not exactly what the engineers had planned."

Sean, like you, I have no first hand knowledge what actual pressure is going through the engine. I can only go by logic and if this really where a problem and a misplacement (as it is called by some), don't you think the engineers at Yamaha would have corrected this so called problem in the last 21 years? Another logical point is that there are no proved engine failures littering the roads from lack of engine lubrication. If there is one somewhere, more than likely the operator contributed to the failure and not the "dreaded one". I respect you for your knowledge on the Max and my perception of your honesty as a man. It just doesn't add up. There are thousands of Maxes right now running with what some consider a misplaced ring and they will still be running the same way many years from now. Apparently the pressure is sufficient for many Maxes turning over 100K miles and still running. It surely wouldn't be an issue for the engineers to make an improvement if they thought it was a problem. IMHO

 

[Calimus]

So since this has touched on the o-ring issue..... Is there any other fix for this issue aside from the kit from VmaxBitz in the UK?

 

[firefly]

This is what I found at a vmaxer site, I think it was someone from Canada, it also says that Yamaha has changed that part after 99.
As for my 03 I made the dealer check it and I paid for it and the Oring was perfectly in place and I am $200 lighter in the wallet, but at least I feel better better now knowing that my max will last another 200 years without oil starvation problems:scooter0:
the Lt is the post 99 and the Rt is 85 to 98, but this part is not sold separately and is part of the oil delivery assembly which is about $48.55
Part # for the whole assy is 26H-Y1319-10-00 from ronayers
firefly
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Lamborghini Cala history

 

[one2dmax]

"Not exactly what the engineers had planned."

Sean, like you, I have no first hand knowledge what actual pressure is going through the engine. I can only go by logic and if this really where a problem and a misplacement (as it is called by some), don't you think the engineers at Yamaha would have corrected this so called problem in the last 21 years? Another logical point is that there are no proved engine failures littering the roads from lack of engine lubrication. If there is one somewhere, more than likely the operator contributed to the failure and not the "dreaded one". I respect you for your knowledge on the Max and my perception of your honesty as a man. It just doesn't add up. There are thousands of Maxes right now running with what some consider a misplaced ring and they will still be running the same way many years from now. Apparently the pressure is sufficient for many Maxes turning over 100K miles and still running. It surely wouldn't be an issue for the engineers to make an improvement if they thought it was a problem. IMHO

I am planning on making an adapter to check the pressure of the early engines before and after the o-ring to see what if any loss is out there.

You are only in contact with a very limited few vmax owners, many of which never ride thier bikes to even half it's potential. Most will never have a problem with the o-ring completely removed. You would be surprised to see how many just don't even get the v-boost opened up.

There are untold number of people who may have had failures but simply didn't put 2 and 2 together. They simply thougt, well - it must have been my fault or simply didn't know any better.

As I said, there is still going to be some pressure but it won't be sufficient for the higher rpm's that the engines are capable of.

Sean Morley.

 

[mikemax04]

I am planning on making an adapter to check the pressure of the early engines before and after the o-ring to see what if any loss is out there. Sean Morley.

That's what I'd like to see happen instead of so many guessing. I'm not familiar with the setup but surely there must be some way to hook into the pump itself on the pressure side. Possibly drill and tap 1/8" pipe tap and insert a pressure sending unit. All I want is to find the truth, no matter where it leads. Too bad we don't have the possibility to contact a man in the know at Yamaha to explain the situation. This would be a big service to the rest of the Maxers to determine once and for all if there really is something to worry about. I'm surprised nobody has done this sooner. Way to go Sean.

 

[maleko89]

Paul Czernics knows of somebody. He's in contact with Yamaha.

 

[mikemax04]

Paul Czernics knows of somebody. He's in contact with Yamaha.

So he says Mark. If it's someone in the States, they won't know. It would have to be one of the engineers that knows or designed the engine, or some other engine expert in Japan's Yamaha.

 

[maleko89]

Yamaha didn't actually design the engine. Can't remember the entire story, but whoever did so attemted to seel the design to Harley Davidson. They turned them down, so....Yami picked it up. I'm sure Yamaha made some changes to the design and I'm sure there's somebody that can be contacted. Wouldn't hurt to try Paul.

 

[1FK00]

So they ALL have the displaced o-ring? My '85 has never had the pan off and it seen redline more times than I could possibly count in its 99K+ miles. I guess the only way to know is to look, but it couldn't have hurt too much.

 

[mikemax04]

So they ALL have the displaced o-ring? My '85 has never had the pan off and it seen redline more times than I could possibly count in its 99K+ miles. I guess the only way to know is to look, but it couldn't have hurt too much.

That's the kind of testament that also should be read by the masses. There are a lot of those 100K mile Maxes with no oil problems. Perhaps Mark can contact Paul to see if he can get the scoop on this issue. If not, then perhaps Sean can research this in his spare time, which I'm sure he has a lot of. LOL

After 21 years, some of the mysticism surrounding the bike should be cleared up once and for all. We all know that if you think you have a problem, somebody will sell you something, if needed or not.

 

[one2dmax]

So they ALL have the displaced o-ring? My '85 has never had the pan off and it seen redline more times than I could possibly count in its 99K+ miles. I guess the only way to know is to look, but it couldn't have hurt too much.

If you are going to look. Let me know before hand and I'll send you gauges, and modified oil filter housing. You'll simply have to install it with a new filter, then check the pressures.

Sean Morley

 

[1FK00]

Come to think of it, I do have a spin-on oil filter adapter kit, and I could tap off the adapter plate to get a good oil pressure reading.

 

[one2dmax]

Come to think of it, I do have a spin-on oil filter adapter kit, and I could tap off the adapter plate to get a good oil pressure reading.

exactly. You can either tap the oil filter housing or your adapter plate. The pressurized oil will not have a loss until after it is coming back from the filter.

Basically it is:

Pump > Tubing 1 > Into Filter > Back through Tubing 2 > past the elbow with the o-ring in question > and then distributed through the block.

I have not seen any issues with the o-ring on tubing 1 so it's pretty much always seeing full pressure past the filter. It's only when it is ready to be distributed that the seal becomes the issue.

Sean Morley

 

[shawn kloker]

Sean You are right.I had good oil pressure on the gauge while my oring was bulged out.It seemed to me that the oil light came on easier with it bulged.After repairing it it is back to normal,oil light only comes on at high rpm's like before. Shawn

 

[mikemax04]

Sean You are right.I had good oil pressure on the gauge while my oring was bulged out.It seemed to me that the oil light came on easier with it bulged.After repairing it it is back to normal,oil light only comes on at high rpm's like before. Shawn

Shawn, oil light and oil pressure are two completely different issues and not related. Oil light coming on has to do with hard acceleration and/or lower oil level. I fill mine to top of sight glass when changing. As oil level drops in pan, light will come on more readily. It will be interesting to see what effect the bulged 0-ring has on the pressure.

 

[shawn kloker]

Shawn, oil light and oil pressure are two completely different issues and not related. Oil light coming on has to do with hard acceleration and/or lower oil level. I fill mine to top of sight glass when changing. As oil level drops in pan, light will come on more readily. It will be interesting to see what effect the bulged 0-ring has on the pressure.

Mike I understand how it works as I see it on pretty regularly.:th_biggun: