Learned a Valuable Lesson

[dij0674]

Hey All,

Just wanted to pass this on, I've been troubleshooting a low charge problem on the max. I've been reading posts and was leaning towards a battery. BUT, everything on my bike is new, battery, RR etc...

someone posted this in a thread.
http://www.electrosport.com/media/pdf/fault-finding-diagram.pdf

I started working through the diag.

long story short the pins in my connector from my stator wires had come loose and were pushed back in the connector and not making connection on one of the wires. Fixed that and all is good.

Saved me about $100 bucks.

Lesson Learned.

Damien

 

[naughtyG]

Do keep an eye on that connector as part of routine maintenance - they have a tendency to overheat, become brittle and break down. The resulting short will fry your stator which will then need replacing.

Been there, done that. Worth making sure that connector's in tip top condition at all times.

 

[MaxMidnight]

someone posted this in a thread.
http://www.electrosport.com/media/pdf/fault-finding-diagram.pdf

Damien

That could have been me - pleased that it help solve your problem.

Feed-back is always helpful and your experience demonstrates that the first step to fixing a problem is to accurately diagnose what is causing the issue.
Too often I read threads where individuals fail to fix a problem because they follow (well meaning) advice of others (i.e. "Mine did that and it was the....") without performing any diagnosis to confirm the advice given.

I have seen experienced time served technicians waste large amounts of time and replace parts unnecessarily because 'they knew best'. After all else has failed they use the diagnostic algorithm in the workshop manual which often points them quickly to the matter.

To get to the bottom of a malfunction I offer the following advice:

1. Never make assumptions.
2. If you don't know, ask. Tap into the huge knowledge base available to you.
3. Listen to others advice but don't blindly follow it - you are then assuming that a) They know what they are talking about b) Your problem is the same as theirs.
4. Test theories - yours and those of others. Can you measure it, see it or feel it?
5. Read the manuals before you start - they often have flow-charts that aid diagnosis.
6. Start with the basics first. Has it been serviced in living memory? Have you pulled HT leads and plug caps to ensure they are still in good condition? For electrical issues start by breaking and re-making a connector to the component. This will clean it up. Replacing the component may have fixed your issue but it was the poor connection that was the problem.
7. Apart from a few carburation Guru's the majority of us don't have the experience to know if it's running rich or lean. At the very least do a plug chop at the revs where you have the issue; better still invest in some dyno time to at least get a baseline setting so that you KNOW (rather than guess) what the air/ fuel ratio is at a particular engine speed.
8. For new problems, have you recently done something to the bike? Many issues are self inflicted!
9. Don't make assumptions!
10. Buy a multi-meter. It needn't cost the earth but it means that you can start measuring voltages and resistances thus you will be basing your diagnosis on fact. It's also useful to check if it's the fuse in the plug that has blown or do you really need to buy the latest wide-screen, High definition 3D television? (The answer to that, regardless of the condition of the fuse will always be 'Yes'.)
11. If you are relay unsure if a particular component is faulty then is it possible to borrow one? If you are wrong then all it has cost you is a bit of time.

To summarise. don't assume and base your diagnosis on fact.

 

[95spfldmax]

Hey All,

Just wanted to pass this on, I've been troubleshooting a low charge problem on the max. I've been reading posts and was leaning towards a battery. BUT, everything on my bike is new, battery, RR etc...

someone posted this in a thread.
http://www.electrosport.com/media/pdf/fault-finding-diagram.pdf

I started working through the diag.

long story short the pins in my connector from my stator wires had come loose and were pushed back in the connector and not making connection on one of the wires. Fixed that and all is good.

Saved me about $100 bucks.

Lesson Learned.

Damien

And obviously it's not just limited to that connector. Just last night I put my battery back in from some TLC on the bench. Plugged everthing back in (as we all know how much sh*t has to come apart just to remove the battery) and nothing....not a single light come on. A quick review and "everything" was connected back up correctly. But then a closer look revealed one of the contacts for the main fuse pushed back out of the connector.

Gotta keep a close eye on these connectors all over the bike. Glad your problem was easy to find also.

 

[MaxMidnight]

I think suggestion #8 & perhaps #6 applies here?

 

[Bill Seward]

That's why I soldered all 3 wires at that point. No more connector, no more connector problems. I have seen these connectors get hot enough to smoke and melt! Being 3-phase AC, it doesn't matter at all which wire from the stator you connect to the R/R wire, just make sure you put one to each, and they are well soldered and insulated from each other and ground. I put a stator in my '85 back in 1988. I soldered the wires, and they were still fine when I upgraded to an Electrosport R/R unit a few years ago. If you do the new type upgrade, you will find a red (+) and a black (-) wire, along with the 3 white wires that go to the stator. The early Max's (like mine) grounded the charging system through the frame - unacceptable. Corrosion anywhere along the line will stop those little electrons from getting to your battery...

Connect the red wire DIRECTLY to the positive battery terminal, and the black wire DIRECTLY to the negative. This will ensure full charge to that battery. I'm still thinking about the "crimp fix", and if this way of hooking up the R/R negates the need for it. In any case, the more direct and less connections your charging system has to go through to get to the battery - the better.

After that - give a thought to the Gold Wing battery mod. If you need a battery, you get a bigger, higher capacity battery with a simple mod to the battery box, and a GW battery. I think you can find a good GW size battery cheaper than a VMax battery, due to more of them being made. If you upgrade to a new style R/R unit, hook it up as I described, and add a GW battery to the system, you're gonna be fine. My '85 was always a finicky starter, but since these upgrades, it starts instantly.

Keep the COPS conversion in the back of your mind, too. That's another winner.

 

[Miles Long]

That's why I soldered all 3 wires at that point. No more connector, no more connector problems. I have seen these connectors get hot enough to smoke and melt! Being 3-phase AC, it doesn't matter at all which wire from the stator you connect to the R/R wire, just make sure you put one to each, and they are well soldered and insulated from each other and ground. I put a stator in my '85 back in 1988. I soldered the wires, and they were still fine when I upgraded to an Electrosport R/R unit a few years ago. If you do the new type upgrade, you will find a red (+) and a black (-) wire, along with the 3 white wires that go to the stator. The early Max's (like mine) grounded the charging system through the frame - unacceptable. Corrosion anywhere along the line will stop those little electrons from getting to your battery...

Connect the red wire DIRECTLY to the positive battery terminal, and the black wire DIRECTLY to the negative. This will ensure full charge to that battery. I'm still thinking about the "crimp fix", and if this way of hooking up the R/R negates the need for it. In any case, the more direct and less connections your charging system has to go through to get to the battery - the better.

I also soldered the stator wires recently, although the connector was not showing any signs of corrosion. In retrospect, I think this was a mistake, because to troubleshoot stator problems, the connector has to be separated (in order to measure stator A.C. voltage at different rpm's)
What I should have done, and eventually will, is to crimp and solder on individual insulated bullet-type connectors. And of course use di-electric grease when connecting the male and female ends. Just my very humble opinion. Cheers!

p.s. after soldering, my voltage only increased marginally. So I did the wiring upgrades from the RR, as outlined above. I now get 14.2 - 14.3 volts at idle, and the voltage stays at that level with increased RPM's.

 

[naughtyG]

+1 on individual well-insulated bullet or other strong type of connectors. I'll be doing that to mine as soon as I get my hands on it!

 

[Bill Seward]

I'd probably do a high quality bullet type connector if for any reason I had to cut the wires I soldered between stator and R/R unit.... To be honest, I never thought of that when I did the connections. However, I've never had a bit of a problem with the soldered joints or the stator either, so I'm leaving well enough alone till a problem appears.