looking for insight prior to purchase

[tucci999]

I have found a Max for sale near me. I've been looking for years and either find them to expensive or far to thrashed. and I found this in my search recently but the owner says the clutch needs adjusting.

from the ad
"The bike may need a slight adjustment of the clutch I noticed after test riding briefly after I had the mechanic make it perfect. Aside from that the paint, wheels side panels and everything is a 10. Great example of a great bike."

When asking about it I got the following response:

I had the bike gone through by my mechanic. I had him do a carb job, change all fluids, from rear differential to brake and clutch lines. It ran well when I got it, I just wanted it perfect. I don't really ride it a lot, I have a few bikes, but I wanted it for my collection. When I got it back, I noticed the clutch was not as smooth as it should be. It needs to be adjusted properly so the shifts are smooth again. I don't have time to correct it, so someone is going to get a pristine low milage example of this bike, and I will discount a visit to the dealer to get it right.

I then asked if the bike can be driven/ridden and got:

yes but it is difficult to shift until it is adjusted

So I've looked briefly, around the forum but you all know it better, does anyone know if this is a bad clutch just a cable that needs adjusting etc? I plan to pull the trigger regardless but want to know if this could be something serious. I'm going to try to ride it tomorrow and will come back with feedback

 

[jdeitz1979]

I have found a Max for sale near me. I've been looking for years and either find them to expensive or far to thrashed. and I found this in my search recently but the owner says the clutch needs adjusting.



from the ad

"The bike may need a slight adjustment of the clutch I noticed after test riding briefly after I had the mechanic make it perfect. Aside from that the paint, wheels side panels and everything is a 10. Great example of a great bike."



When asking about it I got the following response:



I had the bike gone through by my mechanic. I had him do a carb job, change all fluids, from rear differential to brake and clutch lines. It ran well when I got it, I just wanted it perfect. I don't really ride it a lot, I have a few bikes, but I wanted it for my collection. When I got it back, I noticed the clutch was not as smooth as it should be. It needs to be adjusted properly so the shifts are smooth again. I don't have time to correct it, so someone is going to get a pristine low milage example of this bike, and I will discount a visit to the dealer to get it right.



I then asked if the bike can be driven/ridden and got:



yes but it is difficult to shift until it is adjusted



So I've looked briefly, around the forum but you all know it better, does anyone know if this is a bad clutch just a cable that needs adjusting etc? I plan to pull the trigger regardless but want to know if this could be something serious. I'm going to try to ride it tomorrow and will come back with feedback

The clutch, is hydraulic. Uses brake fluid, and has a push rod the disengages the clutch. As far as adjusting it, that’s a head scratcher. Check the fluid, and make sure the clutch control hasn’t been switched out with a smaller one ( meaning it would push less fluid, giving a had to shift scenario). Sometimes bleeding them doesn’t go great and air could be trapped in the line, or something of that nature. This is the place to find your info to fix n mod your bike for sure. Providing you purchase.

As far as the purchase, how much is he asking and what year?

I’d definitely look at it in person. Check the tires, and brakes. You can see if you look close enough if it will need pads soon. Look for leaking or wetness from the fork seals and shocks. Wouldn’t hurt to remove the faux tank cover and peek in the coolant res to make sure that looks good as well.


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[KDIMD]

Without a good clutch, you would not be able to perform the 2nd gear test. Hopefully it just needs to be bled, which is pretty easy to do.

 

[[email protected]]

There really is no "adjusting" a vmax clutch.
It is a hydraulic unit, not a cable unit. It either works properly, or it does not.
Parts can be changed to suit a particular need (different master cylinder, different clutch spring setups) but there is no simple adjustment.

If the clutch is not working properly, it could be a number of things.

Air clutch line?
Maybe the fluid needs replaced.
Maybe the master cylinder or slave cylinder is loosing pressure and needs rebuilt/replaced.
Maybe the clutch is fine but its an older bike and the shift segment needs updated.....

Hard to say with limited info.

 

[sdt354]

Without a good clutch, you would not be able to perform the 2nd gear test. Hopefully it just needs to be bled, which is pretty easy to do.

+1, and that's the biggest worry. If 2nd gear doesn't engage right it could mean splitting the cases to fix it. The seller doesn't sound very knowledgeable, or a typical vmax owner. Which makes me question if and how he maintained it. Price is important.

 

[MaxMidnight]

If the clutch clears OK i.e. no drag then the problem doesn't lie there.

Check that the linkage is free or has excessive slop.

If that is OK the next step would be the 'star' which sits on the end of the shift cam is intact. On early bike the pins were separate and could dislodge. (#'s 7 & 13)
You would need to remove the clutch basket.to inspect this.

This part was modified on later bikes and perhaps others can advise when this took place.

If that checks out OK then you may be into the selectors which would require the cases to be split.

I guess the bottom line is if you are prepared to accept the worst case scenario and do you have time and inclination to effect the necessary repairs?

 

[tucci999]

This is why I love forums like this.

It is an 85 with 11000 miles.

Asking 2,500 said it was serviced recently but they always say that.

It sounds like it isn't fully disengaging so maybe the master cylinder. I'm looking at it today and will have pictures and more feedback.

 

[D-Max2012]

Just a little $.02 to this.. Don't know it it applies in your case..

I replaced my clutch master cylinder because the plunger lever was leaking back fluid, after pulling in on it.. In 1st gear, the rear wheel would disengage like normal when sitting at a light, but slowly start to engage on it own.
At this point, the lever felt loose (no pressure pushing back), until I pumped it up a few times.

This was extremely dangerous, especially if you're the 1st vehicle waiting for the light to change, and traffic is speeding by in front of you..

When this happened, and you were already in gear, it made it hard to get to 2nd gear.

I found out later that I could have gotten the replacement clutch cylinder repair kit,
but, because I had recently replaced the brake MC, I didn't mind matching newer looking clutch MC also.. lol

That's not a bad price for an 85 with only 11K, as long as there's nothing major to be serviced.
I almost paid that much for my 91, and found all sorts of issues with it.. But, I learned a lot via these guys on this forum, and the internet videos. Mostly, Sean Morley's videos.

Good luck with it..

 

[tucci999]

Just a little $.02 to this.. Don't know it it applies in your case..

I replaced my clutch master cylinder because the plunger lever was leaking back fluid, after pulling in on it.. In 1st gear, the rear wheel would disengage like normal when sitting at a light, but slowly start to engage on it own.
At this point, the lever felt loose (no pressure pushing back), until I pumped it up a few times.

This was extremely dangerous, especially if you're the 1st vehicle waiting for the light to change, and traffic is speeding by in front of you..

When this happened, and you were already in gear, it made it hard to get to 2nd gear.

I found out later that I could have gotten the replacement clutch cylinder repair kit,
but, because I had recently replaced the brake MC, I didn't mind matching newer looking clutch MC also.. lol

That's not a bad price for an 85 with only 11K, as long as there's nothing major to be serviced.
I almost paid that much for my 91, and found all sorts of issues with it.. But, I learned a lot via these guys on this forum, and the internet videos. Mostly, Sean Morley's videos.

Good luck with it..

So I took a look at it today. And this seems to be very much in line with what was happening. So some back story I'm in sales and think I'm a decent judge of character and I think this guy was honest.

So first i was wrong its an 88

He could have told me it was a 2005 and I would have believed him. I'll see if I can attach some photo's he had paper work for everything for the year he has owned it and he has multiple bikes in show room condition.

So he said when he got it everything was running and shifting fine but it would bog down and said it was because it had K&N pod style filters on it but wasn't jetted right so he took it to his shop and they put the stock air box on it and boom she runs perfect now. (it sounds like it's brand new) they also replaced the brake fluid and replaced the clutch fluid clutch fluid (triumph stuff)

now I know that clutch fluid and break fluid are the same hydraulic fluid is hydraulic fluid but this stuff seems thin compared to the dot 3 and 5 stuff i'm used to.

So we had it running and I put it in first just fine a couple pumps and I could put it in second but then it became tough to shift into 4th. So this sounds like the issue you were having and a slave cylinder and master cylinder rebuild kit might be the best way to go. If that's it I have one hell of a bike for two up riding and cruising.

Could the fluid be an issue could that be all it is?

 

[Fire-medic]

Looks very clean for the year.

A 'reverse-bleed' may help to remove any air in the line. If the slave cyl. is sticking, that can cause problems w/the clutch engagement. So can an internally-bleeding clutch master cyl. So can a dirty weep hole in the floor of the clutch master cyl. & that would be the one v. small dia. closest to the banjo bolt.

It's kind-of a pig in a poke if it doesn't work correctly, it could only be a bleed, or you (worst case) have to split the cases. That would be because 2nd gear dogs are rounded, and no-longer stay engaged, when you wind it up, it jumps out of gear. It's hard to say what it is, long-distance. In that kind of a case, you should only pay a price reflective of the cost of repairs added to whatever he's asking to come to a total which is comparable to fair market value.

Apparently the clutch has issues disengaging in multiple gears, which makes me think, it's something like a sticky clutch slave cyl or air in the lines. The fluid looks clean in the pic.

 

[D-Max2012]

That's a good looking bike..

IF your issue is the same as mine was, I was able to MAKE it act up.

If I depressed the clutch 100%, then release a little pressure back and forth,, (Ex. 100% pressure, 95%, 100%, a few times), while in 1st gear on the center stand, you could see the tire stop when I got full pressure on the clutch.

If I waited a little bit, while fully depressed, you could feel the back pressure start to release on your hand, and watch the rear tire start to engage.

After changing out the MC, I could do the same test with no clutch engagement, with about 30% or more pressure.

Of course, with all of this, you have to bleed the system correctly.

Good luck with it.

 

[[email protected]]

Very clean and close to stock. Looks like the exhaust has been modified to make some additional noise and the grips were changed.

I do not think this is a fluid problem at all. At best case, its air in the system and can be fixed by bleeding it.

Based on your description, I would GUESS that the bike needs a new/rebuilt master and/or slave cylinder.

There is also a chance that the problem is something different and much more expensive. Though, I would not bet on it.

IF the clutch is not fully disengaging you could take a risk and ride it to see if 2nd gear holds. The bike should run fine. Shifting and stopping is just a bit awkward. It would answer the $1K+ question.

 

[MaxMidnight]

...hydraulic fluid is hydraulic fluid but this stuff seems thin compared to the dot 3 and 5 stuff i'm used to.

Dot 5 is silicon based, Dot 5.1 isn't and is compatible with Dot 3 & 4 fluids

So we had it running and I put it in first just fine a couple pumps and I could put it in second but then it became tough to shift into 4th. So this sounds like the issue you were having and a slave cylinder and master cylinder rebuild kit might be the best way to go. If that's it I have one hell of a bike for two up riding and cruising.

If it goes into first and second OK then how can it be an issue with either master or slave cylinder?
It either drags or it doesn't.

If it is only the higher gears that are affected then I would suspect an issue with the selector mechanism.

 

[mzbk2l]

If the slave cyl. is sticking, that can cause problems w/the clutch engagement.

I found a similar condition when I resealed my slave cylinder. Enough gunk had gotten stuck down there that I don't think the piston was able to return fully, leaving the clutch slightly dragging (or slipping, depending on how you look at it). I had a much cleaner clutch engagement after using a brake hone & installing a $15 seal kit.

If it goes into first and second OK then how can it be an issue with either master or slave cylinder?
It either drags or it doesn't.

If it is only the higher gears that are affected then I would suspect an issue with the selector mechanism.

I'm kinda leaning toward agreeing with this. VMaxBrad here in Mesa diagnosed this problem for me, and even had a spare new version in his toolbox. Took about 15 minutes to install it and I was back on the road.

I still owe him a beer or two...

 

[tucci999]

So to catch you all up to speed. I bought the bike. And after pulling my hair out after rebuilding the slave and master cylinder the bike shifts like a dream. Took it for a spin today but I get a bogging down sensation in 4th and 5th gear under 4,000 rpms.

The sensation is more when I give it throttle it gives then feels fuel starved and then catches up. I kind of like the delay except in the corner it was a little sketchy at times. Also I think the charging system is acting up because it sounded like it didn't want to start today. and then turned over.

Insight would be good otherwise I'll be scouring the forum.

 

[Fire-medic]

If that thing's been sitting, clean the carbs, and get a fresh battery into it, and make sure the charging system is working properly. You will probably see a big difference in smoothness and ridability.

 

[tucci999]

That's the plan. The carbs were cleaned prior to me buying the bike. The charging system and the battery are next.

This bike terrifies me. It pulls so hard when vboost kicks in that I have a wicked bruise on the top of my foot from the shift lever.