Need to vent alittle... Did I over react? Haha

[donnelly317]

Well I was hoping to get maybe a deal on another sensor but I was fully prepared to purchase another at full price.. but i emailed the ebay sell just to test the waters...this is how it went

I sent this email

Hi I was wondering if you guys have had any know failures of what i believe to be the capacitor inside. I got mine back in march 2011 light came back on within a year before next inspection it was intermitent. Failed to realize you guys had a 1 yr warrenty. Oops. but i just recently opened it up hoping that it may have been corroded and i could clean it up but it wasnt. Something expolded which i believe it was a capacitor. I was just wondering if you guys have had problems before. I just see there two different companys selling two different products

They sent this

Hello and good morning,Thanks for emailing us. We'd be delighted to assist you. You didn't say what OBD II code the S 100 is throwing at this point. Our guarantee matches the GM guarantee on an OEM Flex Fuel Sensor which is one year. All flex fuel sensors, no matter who makes them, and electronic auto parts have a one year ONLY guarantee. We have over 17,000 sensors all over North America in service at this point and none have failed in six years. The capacitor that is in the sensor can manage over three times the volts it's required to and it's not likely it's the device. We do NOT recommend tampering with the device any further. We believe you have a wiring difficulty and we can help you determine that as well. You will need to do a direct current voltage test which means testing all three wires in the pigtail leading up to the sensor. WITH KEY ON-ENGINE OFF the correct voltage should be:Black - Ground or 0Pink - 12 voltsWhite - 5 voltsNOTE: There is a variance of one volt meaning if the white wire shows 4.87 volts, we consider that a healthy connection to power the sensor.IMPORTANT: there are only two parts to the repair. One is the sensor and it's likely the sensor is just fine given our enormous customer base and no failures, and then if it has the correct direct current volts to run. If the sensor has a bad capacitor, it would mean the DCV's have spiked CONSIDERABLY and destroyed it. We would start with the voltage test to eliminate that possibility first. It costs nothing to test it.We have auto engineers and ASE Certified Master Tech's on duty 9-6 PACIFIC TIME Mon-Sat for consultation and we are glad to help. Or you can simply email us your telephone number and we can save you the long distance charges. Either way, we are ready to help. Let us know what you find and we can go from there. Jake JefferiesAssociate Auto EngineerASE Certified Master TechTech Support-Point A Engineering, LLC

Totally understandable and I was gonna check things out and get back to them.

I sent them this back right away

Thank you for your assistance I will check voltages but the sensor is shot for sure the capacitor is stinky haha. Ill let you know on the voltages as soon as I can. My phone number is 716-983-6710. Sucks if im the first failure! The leads were a little corroded. Im thinking maybe the fish oil or whatever was in capacitor did this because the inside of the device was pritty nasty too. Hope my voltages are fine because I dont want to chase a gremlin

Well I went on ebay and I had this message

Hello,Nice to meet you. I am a degreed Auto Engineer and I own Point A Engineering, LLC. Your voltage is what would have cause the capacitor to overload. This isn't a failure of the sensor. It was the voltage being too high in the S10 that destroyed it. That is the only way the subject capacitor can fail. We designed it to accept THREE TIMES the voltage the truck could muster on the end of the pigtail. I'm sorry Jake didn't make that more clear. THERE IS NO FISH OIL in this computer device-unless you meant that as some sort of joke. This device holds a US Patent and you can't know what to expect when you look at it or smell it. We do. It's sealed with epoxy as are most electronic auto parts that occupy a spot on the undercarriage in order to be weatherproof. Snow, salt etc. require that to be a part of the manufacturing process.Again, let me make this very clear. The sensor didn't fail until it OVER amped from the faulty wiring. It's like wiring your television up to 220 volts. It would destroy it.I wish you good luck in your test but past that, your guarantee has been over for more than a year. This concludes the sale and any further business we have.Judy SandbergCEO - General Mgr.Point A Engineering, LLCpointaengineering.com

I thought this was very rude I got pissed... so I sent this haha

Mr judy I was NOT asking for a refund. I do know what I am talking ABOUT and fully UNDERSTAND the voltage problem JAKE was doing just fine. I have been hapo y with my experience until YOU came along giving me all the capital letters like I'm a ****** *****. I am a degreed in aircraft technican and aircraft electronics/avionics. The fish oil was NOT a joke it what is used in SOME capacitors if your an ENGINEER you should know this. This conculeds any business I was gonna do with you because I WAS gonna buy ANOTHER unit. But I will be happy to give GM my 600 bucks over you a buck fifty. Learn some professionalism and you SHOULDNT talk to others like there ****** IDIOTSHAVE A GOOD DAY.

All this just for a flex fuel sensor repeater...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Flex-Fuel-C...Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f16ada938&vxp=mtr

So I email another company making the same sort of device asking if they are affiliated with point a engineering lol

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[warriorguy]

I think you handled it very well.My favorite line is.(IF YOU WERE STANDING IN FRONT OF ME RIGHT NOW YOU WOULD NOT BE TALKING TO ME LIKE THAT)I would e-mail him back and ask him for his supervisors name.People like that should not be dealing with people.

 

[dmax1]

Sounds like the guy is not a bussiness savy at all. I myself would try a u pull it or some other salvage yard where you can find a good used one.I have done this before myself. Just bring a volt/ohm meter and check it for proper resistance before buying. It may save you some money. And NO you did not over react imo. No one likes to be talked to like thier an *****.

 

[donnelly317]

I think you handled it very well.My favorite line is.(IF YOU WERE STANDING IN FRONT OF ME RIGHT NOW YOU WOULD NOT BE TALKING TO ME LIKE THAT)I would e-mail him back and ask him for his supervisors name.People like that should not be dealing with people.

Sad part is he is the owner CEO general manager who would be his supervisor his mom??? Should I request to talk to her?? Hahah

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[donnelly317]

Sounds like the guy is not a bussiness savy at all. I myself would try a u pull it or some other salvage yard where you can find a good used one.I have done this before myself. Just bring a volt/ohm meter and check it for proper resistance before buying. It may save you some money. And NO you did not over react imo. No one likes to be talked to like thier an *****.

Believe me I've tried a bunch of times cant find any anywhere!! Flex fuel sensor cost 4-6 hundred new it sucks! Its for my girlfriends s10 we want to just get it fixed and sell it so she can get a bike lol. I have a 06 cummins and a little 98 neon for a gas saver. Were getting a house this year and hoping next tax return to get a jetta tdi.. I need good MPG I drive 100miles round trip to work every day

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[RaWarrior]

More eBay lol's.....

I don't think you over-reacted. I probably would have sent back something similar. The first reply was A+ customer service, a lot of sellers have no idea of the products they're selling since they just unload crates from China and send them off. Jake gets a cookie. Apparently this Judy ****** caught wind of your "dispute" and decided the best solution was a mega-dose of pandering, I guess figuring if you were adequately chastised you would go away. Judy doesn't have much customer support experience evidently.

As far as I can tell this device "fools" the ECU into thinking the sensor is reading regular pump gas? I've worked with Delphi/GM flex fuel sensors, we used one on our flex fuel converted Ski-Doo. They output a square wave voltage from 0-5 volts, so say + voltage 10% of the time corresponds roughly to 10% ethanol and so on, assuming it was a E85 capable vehicle. The frequency of this fluctuation is interpreted into alcohol percentage by the ECU. So this little chip is designed to take a constant power source and "chop" it up in a frequency that corresponds to what a real sensor would read for pump gas. Now how it replicates that I don't know, I'm not an electrical engineer but I do remember making a circuit to blink a light at variable intervals using a breadboard, handful of capacitors, and a potentiometer so it can't be too complicated. Your truck could have spiked voltage, but even if full battery voltage got there (which it shoudn't, they run on 5v dc), if it was indeed good to 3x that, it still wouldn't have failed. Did the truck's CE light come on or throw any codes to give any clues about what happened when this dongle blew up? I suspect you just got a bum part.

The sponsor we got our flex fuel sensor from, a GM dealer said that for the cars, if the sensor malfunctioned for whatever reason the car would default to tuning correct for E10. So if you just plug nothing into the truck end I'd guess the ECU would just revert to a default reading and trip the CE light, but probably run just fine. Then poke out the bulb for the CE light, and sell it. Easy.

 

[donnelly317]

More eBay lol's.....

I don't think you over-reacted. I probably would have sent back something similar. The first reply was A+ customer service, a lot of sellers have no idea of the products they're selling since they just unload crates from China and send them off. Jake gets a cookie. Apparently this Judy ****** caught wind of your "dispute" and decided the best solution was a mega-dose of pandering, I guess figuring if you were adequately chastised you would go away. Judy doesn't have much customer support experience evidently.

As far as I can tell this device "fools" the ECU into thinking the sensor is reading regular pump gas? I've worked with Delphi/GM flex fuel sensors, we used one on our flex fuel converted Ski-Doo. They output a square wave voltage from 0-5 volts, so say + voltage 10% of the time corresponds roughly to 10% ethanol and so on, assuming it was a E85 capable vehicle. The frequency of this fluctuation is interpreted into alcohol percentage by the ECU. So this little chip is designed to take a constant power source and "chop" it up in a frequency that corresponds to what a real sensor would read for pump gas. Now how it replicates that I don't know, I'm not an electrical engineer but I do remember making a circuit to blink a light at variable intervals using a breadboard, handful of capacitors, and a potentiometer so it can't be too complicated. Your truck could have spiked voltage, but even if full battery voltage got there (which it shoudn't, they run on 5v dc), if it was indeed good to 3x that, it still wouldn't have failed. Did the truck's CE light come on or throw any codes to give any clues about what happened when this dongle blew up? I suspect you just got a bum part.

While I'm totally blowing smoke now, I would guess that if the sensor was just gone...as in nothing plugged into the truck end, the ECU would revert to a default setting, which I would assume to be regular pump gas. It'll turn the CE light on but I'd be surprised if it didn't still run fine. The sponsor we got our flex fuel sensor from, a GM dealer said that was the case for the cars, if the sensor malfunctioned for whatever reason the car would default to tuning correct for E10.

Yes it will run fine but horrible fuel mileage probably ecu thinking its full ethanol? The whole problem is gm set it up to turn check engine light on if it didnt function properly and in NY they wont pass your inspection so I need to get it off.. either buying another device from the other company on ebay, finding a used sensor in junk yard ( impossible) or buying a new sensor ( dont want to do on a rusted up 01 s10 with 170k on it lol

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[ninjaneer]

its funny how bold retailers get when in front of the computer. i agree with all... you were as civil a anyone should get.

Regards from my Taptalking Hercules Android

 

[CaptainKyle]

Not over reacting to me. I had a little blowout with Saber Cycles last week on a Goldwing ignition. After them telling me I did not know what I was talking about & towards the end of the day they finally figured they were wrong.

 

[bazwell]

That wasn't over reacting. FYI I had a look at their feedback and found this --> http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISA...=negative&interval=365&_trkparms=negative_365

Same part, right? Sounds like they are full of it.

 

[donnelly317]

Got these back

Your warranty expired more than one year ago. We are unable to provide any further assistance to you.Customer Svc.Point A Engineering, LLC


Sir, This email will serve as notice that we have no intention of honoring any further orders from you either here or our corp website. NOTE: It is a formal denial of service. See our Terms and Conditions on our website for details. Dillon WestLegal Dept.Point A Engineering, LLC

I suggest you look at what you typed to me below. Your email is full of swearing, typos and other childish rants. That's not something any professional engineer would author. Further, engineering professionals know that sophisticated electronics aren't filled with FISH OIL nor do they investigate wiring difficulites by calling it "chasing down gremlins". Long before you indicated you were "thinking" of ordering another sensor from my corp, I would have canceled your order and advised you I was exercising my right to refuse service to you. Thanks for clarifying what you are. I already knew. Good luck in your OEM Sensor purchase. I would recommend you get an ASE Certified Master Tech to install it. We enjoy business relationships with professionals.Judy SandbergCEO - Point A Engineering, LLC


Wow do they make my blood boil. Yea I have typos because I was fearious and I was emailing from my stupid smart phone

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[donnelly317]

That wasn't over reacting. FYI I had a look at their feedback and found this --> http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISA...=negative&interval=365&_trkparms=negative_365

Same part, right? Sounds like they are full of it.

Customer said light still came on company said the buying did not email or call us. So that's not to bad. I meen it was the only negative feed back

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[06VMAXIMUS]

Yes it will run fine but horrible fuel mileage probably ecu thinking its full ethanol? The whole problem is gm set it up to turn check engine light on if it didnt function properly and in NY they wont pass your inspection so I need to get it off.. either buying another device from the other company on ebay, finding a used sensor in junk yard ( impossible) or buying a new sensor ( dont want to do on a rusted up 01 s10 with 170k on it lol

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Any time the service engine light is illuminated, the computer will put the engine in "open loop" mode. Which means that instead of looking at all of the sensors and adjusting the air/fuel mixture accordingly, it stays at a safe rich mixture to protect the engine....that's why you get the crappy mpg.

 

[donnelly317]

Any time the service engine light is illuminated, the computer will put the engine in "open loop" mode. Which means that instead of looking at all of the sensors and adjusting the air/fuel mixture accordingly, it stays at a safe rich mixture to protect the engine....that's why you get the crappy mpg.

Ahhh good info did not know this! Thanks man

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[Rollie]

IMHO ,

When I get hot and start typing , I bring out the Thesaurus and make sure I have spell check , " on " . It slows me down , so I'm communicating on the level of , or slightly above the level of my intended victum.

" Never argue with an ***** . It just brings you down to their level and they beat you up with experience ".

unk:

 

[donnelly317]

Haha yea I failed to do that. Oh well but I'm digging more into this found this forum post mechnix is the other one I was gonna order from that JLS sounds like the owner of the point a engineering!!! Haha
Starts at about post 45 JLS does not let up!


http://www.s10forum.com/forum/f105/how-to-fix-ses-p0178-and-p0179-flex-fuel-sensor-200562/
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[dmax1]

Got these back

Your warranty expired more than one year ago. We are unable to provide any further assistance to you.Customer Svc.Point A Engineering, LLC


Sir, This email will serve as notice that we have no intention of honoring any further orders from you either here or our corp website. NOTE: It is a formal denial of service. See our Terms and Conditions on our website for details. Dillon WestLegal Dept.Point A Engineering, LLC

I suggest you look at what you typed to me below. Your email is full of swearing, typos and other childish rants. That's not something any professional engineer would author. Further, engineering professionals know that sophisticated electronics aren't filled with FISH OIL nor do they investigate wiring difficulites by calling it "chasing down gremlins". Long before you indicated you were "thinking" of ordering another sensor from my corp, I would have canceled your order and advised you I was exercising my right to refuse service to you. Thanks for clarifying what you are. I already knew. Good luck in your OEM Sensor purchase. I would recommend you get an ASE Certified Master Tech to install it. We enjoy business relationships with professionals.Judy SandbergCEO - Point A Engineering, LLC


Wow do they make my blood boil. Yea I have typos because I was fearious and I was emailing from my stupid smart phone

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If it comes down to you wanting to get another one just to get the truck running and sold you could send one of us the money and we could order it and forward it to you.:biglaugh:

 

[donnelly317]

Thanks a lot! But theres another guy selling one he made... he is really big in s10 forum and this company blew up his ebay mail threatening law suites and blew up his thread on the forum already talked to the guy lol. He said he has had quite a few come to him because of failers and the this judy does thinks like this all the time