Numerous problems encountered today

[Max_Power]

So here's how my day went:

Removed rear wheel to get new rubber put on, brought it to a shop, swapped the rubber in 15mins, and headed home to install. I had high expectations and thought I would be riding in no time, considering removing the wheel was way easier than I thought it would be.

Had a hell of a time getting that damn washer lined up inside the differential on left side, but after some playing around I finally got it figured out. But here is where my first real problem showed up:

When I tighter the axle nut (even way below 35lbs of torque) the rear wheel wont even budge, but if I loosen the nut to maybe 15-20lbs, its rotates just fine.

After some searching on here, it seems I might be missing a washer on the right (brake) side. I am pretty much 95% positive there wasn't one there when I took that wheel off though. I searched all over and couldn't find it anywhere, and unless the same thing happened to me that happened to another member who posted a similar problem here (where the washer stuck to the rim and fell off at some point while at the shop), then I'm pretty sure there was no washer there in the first place.


Now onto my second and third problems:

I discovered my clutch master cylinder is completely dry, so now tomorrow I'm going to buy some tubing and bleed the ****** and hope all is well. Should only be a minor issue...

But then I thought, "lets check the brakes". Front brake is fine, fluid is full, but looks a little dark so I'll bleed those tomorrow too probably, but I can spin the tire and apply the front brake and everything works as intended. Yippie.

Now onto the rear brake:

Spin tire, apply rear brake: nothing. Try again, spin tire, apply brake, and nothing. Figure I try one more time, so I spin the tire, applied the brake, and to my relief it worked! But something obviously isn't right, so I tried one more time, but now the tire wont budge. The brake is now permanently engaged.

Does this sound like something a bleed will fix?

Help me VMaxForum.net, you're my only hope!

 

[tugla]

many people move the washer from the caliper side to inside the wheel to offset it to run the 170 tire. if you got the Metz 170 no need to do the washer swap id put it on the outside brake side where it suppose to go.
now when you are turning the wheel checking your brakes....id wait til you get your washer and tq setting all dealt with thensee how it turns and brakes that tire.

 

[Rusty McNeil]

If tightening the axle nut seizes the wheel I suspect the tubular collar inside the wheel that prevents that from happening got misplaced, or the flange shaped washer on the brake side is missing.

 

[MaxMidnight]

Now onto the rear brake:

Spin tire, apply rear brake: nothing. Try again, spin tire, apply brake, and nothing. Figure I try one more time, so I spin the tire, applied the brake, and to my relief it worked! But something obviously isn't right, so I tried one more time, but now the tire wont budge. The brake is now permanently engaged.

Does this sound like something a bleed will fix?

I had something similar to this - the piston had seized in its bore. Needed to strip and clean everything up.

 

[Max_Power]

If tightening the axle nut seizes the wheel I suspect the tubular collar inside the wheel that prevents that from happening got misplaced, or the flange shaped washer on the brake side is missing.

This is what I suspect as well, and the washer on the differential side is not flanged either.

 

[Max_Power]

I had something similar to this - the piston had seized in its bore. Needed to strip and clean everything up.

I suspect this is what happened as well.

 

[Max_Power]

many people move the washer from the caliper side to inside the wheel to offset it to run the 170 tire. if you got the Metz 170 no need to do the washer swap id put it on the outside brake side where it suppose to go.
now when you are turning the wheel checking your brakes....id wait til you get your washer and tq setting all dealt with thensee how it turns and brakes that tire.

I am running a 170, but the washer is not flanged, so I don't think the one in the differential is the same one from the brake side.

 

[06VMAXIMUS]

You did have a bad day. Brake fluid absorbs moisture over time, and should be completely changed every few years. I use a mityvac to suck the old fluid out of the reservoirs, then wipe it clean inside. Add new fluid and bleed at each caliper until it runs clear. As stated above it sounds like your rear caliper might have bound up, or the line may have collapsed internally and is acting like a check valve allowing fluid in but not out.

 

[PATMAX]

06Maximus covered what I initially thought. I just replaced a rubber flex line on my 1997 SUV. Brake was hanging up. Line was collapsing internally!
Also the seized rear brake cylinder was my guess as it seems this bike never got basic maintenance like brake fluid changes. (Dark fluid).
In my book I'd rather change out the entire brake cylinder as the thinking is the internals are corroded. Cheap and easy enough to get a fresh one on this forum. Not a bad time to upgrade to stainless steel lines brother. Even with your stock brakes. Upgrade to better calipers on down the road when you can afford it.

 

[Max_Power]

UPDATE 1:

Is there not supposed to be a washer here where the red arrow points?

 

[Max_Power]

UPDATE 2:

I took off the rear brake caliper and I'm in the process of rebuilding as one of the pistons had seized, and it appears it had been like that for quite sometime as the pad is almost completely worn down while the other looks almost new.

The nipple screw is pretty corroded at the bottom, but it is not plugged or clogged; the piston has some scuffing at one place along its side; and whoever took the rings out last nicked up the sides pretty good. I'm fairly confident the screw can be either cleaned or replaced, but is the piston and/or the nicks fatal and need to be replaced?

 

[gamorg02]

UPDATE 1:

Is there not supposed to be a washer here where the red arrow points?

Yes there is, it has a stepped face.

UPDATE 2:

I took off the rear brake caliper and I'm in the process of rebuilding as one of the pistons had seized, and it appears it had been like that for quite sometime as the pad is almost completely worn down while the other looks almost new.

The nipple screw is pretty corroded at the bottom, but it is not plugged or clogged; the piston has some scuffing at one place along its side; and whoever took the rings out last nicked up the sides pretty good. I'm fairly confident the screw can be either cleaned or replaced, but is the piston and/or the nicks fatal and need to be replaced?

Both vmax's i've owned the rear pads have worn unevenly. They still lock up the wheel and i've flushed the lines, so I haven't thought much of it. I'd get a new bleeder screw or clean it or get speed bleeders.

As far as the piston, i'd probably replace them see what morley has, maybe some really good shape used ones.

 

[Fire-medic]

I don't think those scuffs will cause a hang-up. Reassemble things & try it out. Don't forget to use some clean brake fluid to lube the o-ring when doing it.

If you left-out your flat washer on the rear axle, you would bind the wheel assy if your threads allow it to tighten that-far w/o the washer.

I have posted on here before about having collapsed internally brake hoses on cars, trucks, and bikes. Try using compressed air thru the hose to assess the patency (openness) of the passage. Clean the bleeder tip to remove the corrosion and don't think about it again. I once replaced my stock rear brake pads w/aftermarket ones, and found them a bit too-thick, I had to introduce them to my belt sander to dress them a bit to work, otherwise they would bind the wheel. Not enough to lock it solid/non-turning, but enough to get it to get very hot from dragging. You need your small dia master cyl hole to be free of sediment or debris to relieve pressure on the brake piston, otherwise it will act like a porta-power and keep pressure on the pads, instead of pressure and then release.

Push the fluid from the clutch slave bleeder rather than using a Mityvac. There are several threads about frustration of people not adequately bleeding the clutch until they push instead of pull the fluid. A 60 cc syringe & a 1/4" i.d. clear tubing on the end of it using a small hose clamp to the nipple will do it. Your drugstore will have the syringe, you don't need a prescription for one. Some people use a kitchen syringe, very similar. Don't get a "luer-lock" end on your syringe, just a small dia.tube is what you want.

 

[wildweasel_pt]

UPDATE 1:

Is there not supposed to be a washer here where the red arrow points?

If the spacer is not there the caliper will bind on the disc as its not properly placed.

 

[Sentinel357]

I don't think those scuffs will cause a hang-up. Reassemble thngs & try it out. Don't forget to use some clean brake fluid to lube the o-ring when doing it.

If you left-out your flat washer on the rear axle, you would bind the wheel assy if your threads allow it to tighten that-far w/o the washer.

I have posted on here before about having collapsed internally brake hoses on cars, trucks, and bikes. Try using compressed air thru the hose to assess the patency (openness) of the passage. Clean the bleeded to remove the corrosion and don't think about it again. I once replaced my stock rear brake pads w/aftermarket ones, and found them a bit too-thick, I had to introduce them to my belt sander to dress them a bit to work, otherwise they would bind the wheel. Not enough to lock it solid/non-turning, but enough to get it to get very hot from dragging. You need your small dia master cyl hole to be free of sediment or debris to relieve pressure on the brake piston, otherwise it will act like a porta-power and keep pressure on the pads, instead of pressure and then release.

Push the fluid from the clutch slave bleeder rather than using a Mityvac. There are several threads about frustration of people not adequately bleeding the clutch until they push instead of pull the fluid. A 60 cc syringe & a 1/4" i.d. clear tubing on the end of it using a small hose clamp to the nipple will do it. Your drugstore will have the syringe, you don't need a prescription for one. Some people use a kitchen syringe, very similar. Don't get a "luer-lock" end on your syringe, just a small dia.tube is what you want.

Fire-medic are you saying that you use the syringe and tubing at the bleeder to draw out the fluid or to push it in through the bleeder?

 

[Max_Power]

Re: spacer between wheel and caliper bracket

Thats the problem then! I was sure when I took the wheel off there was no spacer there but it all makes more sense now.

Re: clutch bleeding

I'll be purchasing a syringe tomorrow and try that method, seems like by far the easiest way.

Re: brake caliper

Going to reassemble tomorrow too, and hope its not all lost, but besides the couple nicks and scuff, it looks otherwise new, so I'm fairly optimistic

 

[Fire-medic]

You PUSH the fluid. Trapped bubbles/pockets of air are forced to the lever master cyl. Watch the 'fizzie' action from the forward small dia master cyl hole (who 60+ remembers Fizzies?) and when you don't see any-more small bubbles streaming out of it, you should have a good lever.

Fire-medic are you saying that you use the syringe and tubing at the bleeder to draw out the fluid or to push it in through the bleeder?

 

[Lew L]

Ever since I installled "Speed Bleeders" I do a yearly flush ---- it's so quick and easy.

Lew

 

[Rusty McNeil]

Love my speed bleeders except for the finish. They rust easily if I don't keep em coated

 

[wildweasel_pt]

buy stainless ones!