pick-up coil alternative-save big $$!

[Fire-medic]

I was researching alternatives for the stock expensive ignition pick-up and found this site:
http://www.regulatorrectifier.com/catalog/19902007-Yamaha-VMax-VMAX-VMX1200-Stator-Pick-up

Quite a difference from what Yamaha charges! I have not used this product myself, so be sure to see if there is a need to change anything or to make alterations for it to work. I think this would work for any ignition which uses the single pick-up coil. Is it the double coil analog ignition for '85-'89? And after that is the digital ignition w/only one pick-up? So this aftermarket part should work for any 1990-2007 ignition, or a 1985-1989 which had the wiring & rotor, & cdi box, switched to the later digital ignition. I am guessing the charging system coils may be the same across years, but I haven't compared parts numbers. I am sure someone who knows this will be able to confirm or deny.

I did see the resistance is ~100 ohms which fits in the range I saw in the factory manual for the stock pick-up coil impedance. I also measured mine from my '92, and it was ranging right around 99-100 ohms, so this looks to me like it should work.

I'm at work and don't have time to proofread the ignition years, can somebody please fact-check the years, thanks.

 

[one2dmax]

I believe this part will work (and have one on hand if I remember correctly). BUT, it will require some modifications to install. You have to cut off the old sensor and drill/rivet this new one on. You could make a custom bracket to bolt this too as well if you didn't want to hack up the old one.

Sean

 

[satariel666]

Like Sean said, this will work electrically but not mechanically.

Plus you need to do it very accurately...

 

[CaptainKyle]

Once of the guys on the Gen 2 site used one of these with success. He had to drill & rivet like Sean said but he said it worked fine.

 

[CaptainKyle]

Here is the link on the gen2 thread where the guy put one in. http://www.starvmax.com/forum/28-help-desk/173491-91-vmx12-question?start=30

 

[Fire-medic]

OK, I measured the o.c. mounting for the stock coil, and came-up w/ 73.25 mm. So, you would have to probably tap and screw, rivet//weld, or otherwise fasten the aftermarket coil to the stock plate.

I do smell an opportunity for someone to develop a small cottage-industry for those VMax riders who need a cost-effective replacement for the stock hideously-overpriced coil. Heck, it would pay to have one on-hand to whip-onto your ride in the event your trouble-shooting shows your stock coil to be 'open,' instead of ~ 100 ohms resistance.
The current Ron Ayres fiche price is $431.95!

PICK-UP ASY
3UF-81670-00-00 1 $431.95

You could buy the replacement coil, mount it to the stock plate after removing the stock defective coil, and still sell it for a good profit! Or, machine a new mounting plate, whatever...

Because the position of the coil determines the timing, and the air gap for the Hall-effect sensor is critical, it would take a skilled person to do it, but nothing that was really-difficult. So, who's gonna try to help us?

 

[one2dmax]

Good thing the stock unit is pretty durable and rarely goes bad.

 

[satariel666]

Good thing the stock unit is pretty durable and rarely goes bad.

Digital one yup - durable, analog two mf's - NO.

 

[johnpclynch]

Digital one yup - durable, analog two mf's - NO.

How easy would it be to rip out two analog pick-ups and replace with one Digital as per the newer models, then switch the TCI for a digital CDI

I know somebody with analog pick-up/TCI woes and they are having problems getting around it

 

[CaptainKyle]

How easy would it be to rip out two analog pick-ups and replace with one Digital as per the newer models, then switch the TCI for a digital CDI

I know somebody with analog pick-up/TCI woes and they are having problems getting around it

Quite expensive to do. Between the cost of a new fly wheel, cdi, wiring on the cluster & the pick up coils & complete late model wiring harness. I changed my 89 over because I had everything off of some parts bikes but if you have to buy it all it adds up quick.

 

[johnpclynch]

Quite expensive to do. Between the cost of a new fly wheel, cdi, wiring on the cluster & the pick up coils & complete late model wiring harness. I changed my 89 over because I had everything off of some parts bikes but if you have to buy it all it adds up quick.

I was thinking it might add up, I have a '93 TCI but he'll need the pickups and flywheel and either wire it in or get his hands on a full wiring harness

Older TCIs are difficult to source and the problem could still be with the pickups or wiring - but he might know someone that's willing to loan their old Vmax to test his TCI

 

[CaptainKyle]

I was thinking it might add up, I have a '93 TCI but he'll need the pickups and flywheel and either wire it in or get his hands on a full wiring harness

Older TCIs are difficult to source and the problem could still be with the pickups or wiring - but he might know someone that's willing to loan their old Vmax to test his TCI

You can find wiring harness's pretty cheap but the flywheels are expensive . I have a couple. The pick up coil if you go with this aftermarket & make a bracket that makes it a lot cheaper. you also have to change the connector on your side stand but that is not a big deal.

 

[johnpclynch]

...

Because the position of the coil determines the timing, and the air gap for the Hall-effect sensor is critical, it would take a skilled person to do it, but nothing that was really-difficult. So, who's gonna try to help us?

:hmmm:
would there be any benefit in adjusting the timing a degree or two?

 

[Fire-medic]

I replaced my stock pick-up coil recently because it went bad. Luckily I had a used replacement. I got a rotor, stator, & pick-up coil off CL for a great price. So-far, I have only used the coil, but I am glad to have the other parts too.

I am thinking about giving my machinist one of those aftermarket pick-up coils I found & asking him to make an adapter plate using the 'bad' one as a template for the fabrication. Then I could see if it works, and maybe have a cheaper alternative for us.

My bike was down for weeks awaiting the time in the shop & completion of my home-improvements project (new master bath) so now that that is almost-done (custom tempered shower enclosure install tomorrow, the cost of a new rear Carozzeria from Sean) I got the bike fixed, and am happy w/the ride once-again. This time I added the Dyna 3000 I got from another member, sorry, I don't recall exactly who, but thanks, it works great! At-first, the way the bike was working erratically in its ignition function, when I began to have the bike's most-recent problem, I thought it was the ignition box (it is a 1992). I tried the Dyna then, the problem was still there, so I re-installed the stock digital box, and surrendered the bike to my mechanic. He found the pick-up coil bad, I brought him my spare pick-up coil and the Dyna 3000, he installed both (sure beats the stock coil price of $432 + shipping!) and now 'all's right in the VMax world' once-again. I am also glad to have a rev-limiter too.

I piss & moan about the cost of parts & repairs, but a couple of spirited runs on it makes me recall why I am allowing a primate to hitchhike on my scapulae.:rofl_200:

It may finally be at the point where I can justify the time and expense to disassemble it for refurbishing all the finishes, from the frame, to the castings, wheels, & etc. I have spare tins so I can really change the looks of the bike.

 

[Fire-medic]

:hmmm:
would there be any benefit in adjusting the timing a degree or two?

That comes into play w/'power-adders,' mostly, yes?

 

[one2dmax]

It's been done (slotting the pickup) to get a little more advance out of it. Don't expect huge gains but it can work.

With the advent of the Ignitech unit the times of finding a good used TCI are almost over. The unit works well and much more adaptable. It can run COP's without any resistors, it can control/run the vboost (eliminating another black box) and many other things.

I wonder if it could be used in an early ignition system with later model pickup? Something Dingy might be able to answer. The box itself is the same and a simple matter of programming and harness adapter (the units we keep on hand are left universal so we can sell to either customer type).

Converting to the later harness takes more then you'd think. Instrument cluster, starter relay, relays under the left scoop, sidestand switch, pickup coil of course, flywheel, and CDI box. Some of the stuff can be "rigged" to work but not simply swap it out.

 

[dingy]

Someone take a look at ad below on Ebay. See if this pick up might fit in a VMax. Connector is missing on this one.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2001-Yamaha...Parts_Accessories&hash=item589c4a8bdc&vxp=mtr

It is from a 99-13 Royal Star Venture (RSV) 1300 motor. I have one of them that is going to go into a 1300 1st gen motor I am building. I could get some better pictures. It will fit into stator housing correctly I know.

If it would fit a VMax, it would be a lower cost source of a part.

Gary

 

[one2dmax]

This appears it may fit and work with the 90-07 electrical systems.

 

[Fire-medic]

yes, it may, but what is the impedance and what is the mounting hole measurement?

 

[MaxMidnight]

:hmmm:
would there be any benefit in adjusting the timing a degree or two?

I had a device that advanced the ignition by +5% or +10%.

On a standard motor (apart from a Holeshot exhaust) I couldn't detect any difference.

Can't say if that is a reflection on the device or my sensitivity.