a few people have told me that when drag racing there bike they shift with out the clutch just blip the throttle and it slips right in gear so they say. is it just me or does that sound like its extremly hard on the trans. just wondering if any one has any input on this. ( not that i want to do it just curious ).
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naughtyG
Well-Known Member
yes it works just fine and is faster than using a clutch, but it will kill your tranny even super faster.
COP RUNNER
Well-Known Member
SHIT , WITH MY LUCK , I'D JAM IT INTO 3RD , THE BACK TIRE WOULD LOCK UP & I'D FLY OVER THE FUCKING HANDLEBARS !...:rofl_200: I THINK THESE V- MAX'S HAVE ENOUGH QUIRKS , WITHOUT HAVING TO GROW MORE ! IF I DID SHIT LIKE THAT TO MY BIKE , I WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO SLEEP !
mivmx
Well-Known Member
I aggree, it's just asking for trouble if you don't use the clutch. Unless of course you enjoy breaking stuff.....:biglaugh:
ya thats what im thinking it can't be good, the people that said they shift with out a clutch said it does no excecive harm to trans and it was almost like it was made to shift like that ( some of the people ride rockets ) but just cuz you can shift with out the clutch does't mean its a good idea IMO. its like runing a motor with out oil it will run for a minute with out blowing up but its not somthing you would want to try u know.
so i could be wrong, but the way it was explained to me is that at the right RPMs the transmission will want to slide gear to gear and it is actually fine, however if you are not in that specific RPM range thats where it does damage that builds up, however with bikes its easy to 'force' out of that range, esp sportbikes.
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chainednitromaxx
Well-Known Member
i can not see how it would be so hard on the tranny.I got 1500 with undercut gears and did this a long time with no trouble with 165hp at tire.I would only do it during a race .I would thiink using the clutch it would not be as fast and when you let out clutch thru each gear during race it would hit tranny harder since not as fast ,shocking gears.Could be wrong about this just a thought.I got nos and now dropped 60fts in 130s and yes now i am ripping 2 nd and 3rd gear but it not from the above mentioned,the gears just suck! JOHN:ummm:
KJShover
Proud Vmax lover
Here is a cool little page on how tranmissions work, complete with illistrations.
http://www.gadgetjq.com/transmission.htm
I've shifted w/o the clutch for many years without a problem on my Venture, XS11 and on occation my Vmax. If its done right (upshifting) the gears just fall into place and can actually be more smooth then when clutching.
There are others that say it will kill your trans, other's say it's not as hard on them. It's kinda like that oil debate.
Here is a debate thats going on about this topic on the Total Motorcycle Forum.
http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/BBS/viewtopic.php?t=27809&sid=2b93087486387c4ce56bf65bd12f36ed
enjoy :biglaugh:
http://www.gadgetjq.com/transmission.htm
I've shifted w/o the clutch for many years without a problem on my Venture, XS11 and on occation my Vmax. If its done right (upshifting) the gears just fall into place and can actually be more smooth then when clutching.
There are others that say it will kill your trans, other's say it's not as hard on them. It's kinda like that oil debate.
Here is a debate thats going on about this topic on the Total Motorcycle Forum.
http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/BBS/viewtopic.php?t=27809&sid=2b93087486387c4ce56bf65bd12f36ed
enjoy :biglaugh:
Birdoprey
Well-Known Member
Its not the rpm "range" that allows a clutchless shift. Its the timing of letting off the throttle(ever so slightly) and changing the gear shift lever. There is a small amount of lash in the transmissions between gears, otherwise you would never get it to move. When you are accelerating, there is pressure on only one side of the engagement dogs. When you slack off the throttle that pressure becomes nil just before the the engagement dogs hit the back sides. During that lash period, the tranny will slide right out of gear just as smooth as silk and right into the next gear. I clutchless shift alot even when just putting around town at very low rpm. I've done alot of dragracing and always clutchless shifted, even running nitrous and when running a turbo. I've NEVER had any issues with a tranny. The same CAN NOT be said for some i've ridden with who shifted using their clutch(though this was due to them not doing it correctly).
There would be no harm to the tranny when done correctly(you'll know when your doing it right as you will not miss shifts and it will be buttery smooth). It also helps clutch fibers last longer as there is no wear when changing gears.
If you decide to shift with the clutch(which can be done well enough), PLEASE do not pull the clutch in too much while the throttle is pinned. When the clutch is released(usually quite abruptly) there is a tremendous shock to the entire drivetrain(this is due to the engine rpms rising a good deal more than the input shaft on the tranny and when you let the clutch out the clutch basket and crank has a good head of steam built up when the load hits the tranny/drivetrain). Your rpms should not rise much when performing a good(and smooth) clutch aided shift. If they do zing up during the shift, your gonna hurt something(prolly expensive too!).
There would be no harm to the tranny when done correctly(you'll know when your doing it right as you will not miss shifts and it will be buttery smooth). It also helps clutch fibers last longer as there is no wear when changing gears.
If you decide to shift with the clutch(which can be done well enough), PLEASE do not pull the clutch in too much while the throttle is pinned. When the clutch is released(usually quite abruptly) there is a tremendous shock to the entire drivetrain(this is due to the engine rpms rising a good deal more than the input shaft on the tranny and when you let the clutch out the clutch basket and crank has a good head of steam built up when the load hits the tranny/drivetrain). Your rpms should not rise much when performing a good(and smooth) clutch aided shift. If they do zing up during the shift, your gonna hurt something(prolly expensive too!).
RazoR333
Well-Known Member
I have shifted clutchless "after first " for years on different bikes ,...never had a problem,..some do shift a lot smoother than others ,..my Fazer is a dream up shifting to mid RPM. Max is a lil quirky about it tho. It's no different than shifting a manual transmission of a car or truck.
When i was 14, my uncle showed me this driving an old grain truck for him 1 summer. Did it by accident once after that on the bike and hheeeyyy,...it works here too,..kewl.
When i was 14, my uncle showed me this driving an old grain truck for him 1 summer. Did it by accident once after that on the bike and hheeeyyy,...it works here too,..kewl.
All manual trannies are the same...if you match the gears/rpm's properly it will slide from gear to gear smooth as silk. Birdoprey explained it perfectly....no slam shifting and it does no harm.
I drove tri-axle dump trucks on road construction and once I got the truck moving I would never use the clutch...upshifting, downshifting....doesn't matter. It's all in matching up the rpm's with the gear you want to go into.
You have to be a little more exacting with a v max, of course, but the principal is the same.
I drove tri-axle dump trucks on road construction and once I got the truck moving I would never use the clutch...upshifting, downshifting....doesn't matter. It's all in matching up the rpm's with the gear you want to go into.
You have to be a little more exacting with a v max, of course, but the principal is the same.
hey KJ, great first site...... i had the general idea but that definitely helped my understanding a bit. i also get what people were talking about when the 'dogs' went bad in 2nd gear! thanks again bro!
44 magnum
Well-Known Member
Bought mine with 8800 miles and now have 25K on it. I've been (up) shifting w/o the clutch almost as soon as I bought it. So far, so good.
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ok cool, thanks for all the input, im pushing some were north of 175 hp and i have the trans cut and hardened. so i think mabie i will give it a try after all. i have shifted my dirt bikes with out the clutch before and its smooth but thought with the power and the street mabie it was different i dont know.
WESLICH
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I've always shifted my bikes over the years without the clutch when I got comfortable with them. I don't see that it would ever harm the tranny when done correctly and it saves the clutch. It's a lazy man's way to shift after a long day of riding when you don't have the energy to squeeze the clutch lever. I don't like shifting clutchless going from 1st to 2nd though as it might slip into neutral and miss a gear. Throttle back slowly while pulling up on shift lever and it will slip right in. Opposite thing for downshifting: throttle up slowly while depressing shift lever. You'll get it with practice. Remember, it's an rpm/speed thing. When the right rpm matches the speed, a shift occurs. The clutch just makes the shift happen regardless of speed or rpm.
lankeeyankee
Well-Known Member
I only use the clutch for first gear taking off street or strip use.. Yes you will wear a tranny out if you act as a pussy and just barely bump the next gear good solid blips and I dont believe it wears the dogs to worry about..
I have shifted all my VMAX engines like this.. and I hate to jinx myself but I havent had any tranny issues just crank bearing issues... KNOCK ON WOOD!!
I have shifted all my VMAX engines like this.. and I hate to jinx myself but I havent had any tranny issues just crank bearing issues... KNOCK ON WOOD!!
COP RUNNER
Well-Known Member
KJShover
Proud Vmax lover
Jim's left nut
Danny's Condom
Donn's Transmision
Name three things that are going to be jinxed this year::biglaugh:
COP RUNNER
Well-Known Member
KJ. ARE YOU PSYCHIC OR SOMETHING ? HOW DO YOU FIND ALL OF THIS SHIT ?...:confused2:
lankeeyankee
Well-Known Member
[/color]
AAAHHHH , A LITTLE SUPERSTITIOUS ARE WE LANKEE ? "LOL" :rofl_200ME TO )
Funny you should say that.. Ya know I was never superstitous until I began racing. I was really bad about it.
I wouldnt want anyone saying "Hey Good Luck This Weekend at the track"
This would fuck me up all the way to the track I would question myself.. Luck? :confused2: Luck is in horseshoes and hand grenades.
I can remember a story on the way to a race and it started to rain a lil bit and my partener put the wiper blades on and I was like "Dude turn the wipers off if ya dont its going to rain harder and rain the race out just ignore the rain it will go away"
Yeah so I guess a little supertitous.
