Starter Dilemma

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stilkus

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May 22, 2012
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Location
cairo
hello,
I am a happy owner of a 92' vmax. recently I got a the weird noises of the starter clutch, with the use of the search option I found my way to remove the flywheel (it damaged a tool and had to buy a more expensive one to continue the process) also I underestimated the power needed for its removal, one of the toughest engine parts I've removed in my life.
I found out the starter clutch partially disassembled, the 3 partially screwed to the flywheel. Took everything apart and inspected parts for cracks and luckily the clutch with the rollers and the 72 toothed gear were all shiny without any wear signs.
The flywheel had thread where the 3 screws were attached, I took it to a workshop, it was rethreaded and returned back to 8mm with a steel thread insert ( not sure what it's called, but in Egypt we call it gelba ) .

brought the parts home, reassembled all the parts, re-tightened the bolts with loctite, placed a new gasket and brought everything back as it was before.

The weather here in Egypt is over 104 degrees in the shade, showered with sweat I changed the oil filter and added new 15w40 oil.

now expecting the engine to start flawlessly, it was a shock to me when I pressed the starter button and heard the same old sound as before.

to make a long story short, I disassembled the cover again, took the flywheel off, everything was in order and tight. I place the engine cover again, I still get the same noise, but this time I could hear the starter turning full speed with no resistance whatsoever. no rocky noises, but instead a free turning starter, I would repeat pressing the starter button it would make some rock noises and end with a free turning starter.

I took the starter off to discover it was upgraded to the 4 contact starter by the previous owner of my bike and cleaned the contacts and greased the starter.

I am confused now trying to figure out what could be the cause. could it be the starter gears not engaging ? I didn't find threads discussing the damage of those gears that's why I ruled them out.
I am considering that they might be the cause. anyone care to advise me with what should I consider doing next ?
 
Cracks on the starter clutch can be hard to see. They will expand under load and slip even when you think you don't see a problem. I'd consider a new or good used one. We also have a conversion available that used a sprag (multiple bearings) type clutch that is much more durable. It requires modification to the flywheel so that has to be done on an exchange.

Sean
 
One of the reason we get the dreaded "bucket of bolts" sound from our starter clutches is a weak battery. The Vmax charging system is notoriously fragile, and needs a few tweeks to get it to maintain a proper charging voltage. Here are some resources to check out your charging system:
http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=19108 (Five Star Post!!!!)
http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=994 (Electrical toubleshooting flowchart)
http://www.vmaxforum.net/forumdisplay.php?f=23 (lots of info here)

If you find that you need to get a new battery, I (so have many others)have had great luck with the Odyessy PC680. It's a little pricey but well worth it IMO. Here is a source for it: (USD$114.00 + free shipping) http://www.batterymart.com/p-odysse...dyssey_pc680&gclid=CMromdWDwrECFdPTKgod73oAEg
 
I tried starting it with jumper cables from my car, it improved for a second and returned to how it was before. I also checked thorougly for cracks and I'm sure there weren't any at all, but I will double check again. I would describe my starter free spinning with no resistance whatsoever. Any clues?
 
I tried starting it with jumper cables from my car, it improved for a second and returned to how it was before. I also checked thorougly for cracks and I'm sure there weren't any at all, but I will double check again. I would describe my starter free spinning with no resistance whatsoever. Any clues?

Starter drive train gears installed wrong?

PDF attached from service manual of gear orientation.

Gary
 

Attachments

  • VMX12- Service-Manual starter gears.pdf
    253.1 KB
Okay, I don't know how you do it, but Sean Morley your diagnosis was correct, it was a hairline crack which I found and sure its the cause . I also did a mistake while taking the clutch apart with the bike on its right side down I dropped a set of the clutch parts (1 spring, spring cylinder and the big solid cylinder) through the holes under the crankshaft and I am trying to get it out without removing the whole oil pan. Is it possible and if there are any big openings I can access the inside of the oil pan to remove those parts. I would also want to know how much would a starter clutch and a flywheel cost as my flywheel is a little bit damaged as well.
 
I'd get the magnet and definitely go fishing. You may be able to take out the clutch as well and fish in there from that side.

I wouldn't worry too much about the flywheel. Email me directly for your options though.
[email protected]
 
I'd get the magnet and definitely go fishing. You may be able to take out the clutch as well and fish in there from that side.

I wouldn't worry too much about the flywheel. Email me directly for your options though.
[email protected]

I'll definitely take your advice and go fish for the dropped parts :)

I also managed to find the starter clutch here in my country, it was old stock but I was lucky cause the dealer sold me with old prices.

Also the guy told me something very interesting and I would like to take your opinion about it for sure, he advised me to make a conversion for the stock starter clutch and flywheel so that they would both accept 10mm screws instead of the original 8mm screws. He also mentioned that the clutch material is a pain in the ass to machine, but he said he's done it 10 years ago to a vmax and he never saw the guy again.

The question is could that modification really improve the clutch or is it just going to be a waste of time ?
 
Probably not all that needed but larger bolt heads that fit into the clutch will help keep it from being able to shift around!
 
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