Startup problems

[tman54]

I have been loving my new to me 06 Vmax since buying it last fall. Had to have the carbs redone by Kyle Clegg here in the Tampa area since I have very little mechanical background, no tools, and no real time to play with my own bike mechanically.

Since Kyle got everything going smoothly...I have ridden about 2500 joyous miles all over western Florida. The big difference fo the carbs and bike running smoothly has been switching to pure non ethanol gas. Amazing difference even if a bit more expensive. Also...with the Florida summer temps I never have to use the choke. it has started like a charm for months.

This past week I got pure gas at a new place...ran the bike for about an hour before getting home for the night. Next afternoon i went to start up and it was "groggy" to start up. It fired...but was only firing on 1 or 2 cylinders I think...very low RPMs. When I went to throttle it, it died. Smelled a bit of gas so figured I flooded it somehow. let it rest an hour then tried again. can't get any fire now with multiple attempts over 3 days. It will cough once or twice on the first try...then nothing accept cranking and cranking. I have tried choking it, not choking, half choke, and finally open throttle wide for a minute while trying to start. Kyle is gone for 2 week vacation, so don't know who to call on in Tampa. I definitely don't trust the dealers here from personal experience and shared reputations.

Good thing is it forces me to plug back into this forum...but after 2 hours of fun reading, I don't see anything I can do on my own accept maybe trying some starter fluid. But...I must admit I am not sure where to spray that or if there is a certain type better than the other. Anyone have any pics of where and how to do this? Many terms of your descriptions are "greek" to me.

Obviously trying to adjust carbs as a newby is a scary proposition. From what i've read on the forum, I don't think it is fuel pump or bad carbs. I am now thinking it could have been bad gas...so what do I do about that? Is there an easy way to clear/clean fuel line? Would the plugs have been fouled so quickly with bad gas? If it starts with the spray, should I plan to run it out of gas and replace immediately...or will that just potentially foul the plugs more if that is the problem?

Also, would one bad tank of gas potentially foul up this sensitive carb system? Would it throw off the timing of the cylinders so quickly so that it won't fire?

Possibly the bigger question is...should a non mechanical bike lover like me own a Vmax as much as I love riding the thing? It sounds like there is wide spread problems with the finicky carb system which require a lot of maintenance and frequent adjustments and this bike mechanically looks different than any I have had. I have never had this many problems with a bike previously...have had about 15 over my lifetime. Should I sell this thing once this problem is taken care of?

PS...the bike only has 6500 miles so I wouldn't think it should have any major issues of aging or heavy use. I sense it is probably a simple temporary problem...but frustrating none the less.

 

[fmcandrew]

I'd guess I'd start with draining the float bowls and see if there is anything in there since this was the first time using that gas station. If you feel the gas is bad (which I kinda doubt because it ran for an hour after fill-up) then drain & replace. The CDI's on these things can just crap out with little or no warning. If your getting gas to the plugs (wet) and they're not firing I'd first install new plugs then if still not firing I'd test the spark.

1 tank of ethenol fuel wont gum up the carbs unless the shit is already green! I run enthanol fuel with no issues. Without more info it sounds electrical only because you said it ran for an hour with the current fuel...

 

[jfeagins]

You might want to pull the seat and check the fuel filter too.

 

[fmcandrew]

well...he smells gas so I think the fuel is moving...I'd be curious if the floats are sticking...when you turn the key on & off a few times does the fuel pump stop or does it click away? After a couple times the bowls should fill and you shouldn't hear the fuel pump...

 

[Traumahawk]

If you smell fuel, the floats might be sticking....you can tap on the carbs and possibly unstick the floats. The handle of a screw driver or LIGHTLY tap with a hammer.

 

[m-cman]

Does not sound like electrical. Has to be a fuel problem. Maybe something in the gas that took a while to get thru the filter into the carbs. Sounds like stopped up low speed jets in the jet block. With only 6500 total miles I doubt there is a serious problem. Draining the fuel bowls into a clear jar is a good suggestion. Doesn't take much to clog those tiny jets.

 

[Fire-medic]

If you smell fuel, the floats might be sticking....you can tap on the carbs and possibly unstick the floats. The handle of a screw driver or LIGHTLY tap with a hammer.

I like to use a long 3/8 or 1/2" extension to reach the float bowls. I also use it to reach the fuel pump if I thought that was the problem. (another of my stable's 'issues.') I don't think you need to tear-into the carbs right-now. When I have a bike which won't start, I check the basics-fuel, spark, compression, and work from there.

 

[Hellboy]

If you are not a bit handy and/or don't want a bike to "tinker" with, an older V-max could be very frustrating. I've had two before, one new and one almost new, with no problems. My current 1988 is a constant project. I love mine and enjoy it but I'll still probably get another everyday kind of bike, something newer with fuel injection. If you don't enjoy, or can't work on it yourself, it would not be much fun and could be very expensive if you had to pay someone to figure out every little thing. The rest of the group will probably not like it, but It's exactly why I love it, the V-max is just not the best bike for many people.

 

[95spfldmax]

You should prob pull the plugs and see whos doin what for starters?

 

[dtoebaert-5311]

...then nothing accept cranking and cranking.

be careful not to fry the starter motor

 

[tman54]

Thanks for the suggestions so far guys. I do believe gas is flowing fine since each time I try to start I smell the gas after a few cranks. Draining or unsticking the floats sounds like the next step if I can figure out how. Does anyone recommend starting with trying starter fluid? And where is the best place to use that?

Forgive my ignorance compared to a lot of you gifted/experienced mechanics. I have just never spent time that direction which has made many mechanics happy with me. At the same time, it has not taken me long to know when someone is taking advantage or full of sh..

Hellboy...appreciate your candidness. I agree that I either have to switch to a more traditional, less maintenance demanding bike, or find time to start learning mechanics in my 60s . I DO love this bike ever since it came out in 85 for its sleek design, sound and speed. Even this 59 yr old has gotten some looks from younger girls on this bike. I think I will just need a second bike for touring and backup I guess. Will keep you all posted what works out.

 

[alorio1]

Like FMC stated, open the drain screw on each carb one at a time and cycle the key a couple of times while the drain screw is open. If the float is stuck ,you will see very little fuel but I don't think that will be the case. Anyway do this for all 4 carbs one at a time, make sure there is no gas hot water heater in the garage when doing this. Change the spark plugs, they are cheap enough. If you do these 2 things the bike should fire right up unless you are not getting spark for some reason IE; ecm or pick up coil went out. These 2 things I mention and suggest you do is very simple and basic. And Yes, you should own a Vmax, the problems you are having could happen on any bike...........

 

[jfeagins]

Pull a plug. Dangle it by it's plug wire. Ground the electrode to your frame. Hit the start button and look for spark. Might be either NO spark, or extremely weak spark, and not wanting to keep firing all that gas you smell.

 

[jfeagins]

If your CDI box is getting cantankerous, and needs maximum voltage to fire, you will not get it to "hit" until the exact time as you are letting off the start button, and while the starter is still spinning, but the starter is no longer taking voltage from the battery. When my CDI first began giving me grief, I could have a brand new, fully charged battery in the bike, and it would crank and crank on a nice morning. No start. The only time it would attempt to fire would be right when I'd let go the button (if at all). I'd drain the battery trying, in vane, to get it to start. I'd take the car to work instead. Come home in the afternoon, hit the button again - and it'd fire first try. F'Cking drove me nuts doing that off and on for a couple years. At the same time, on days when the bike would start, is when I began noticing that the bike would miss out on at least one cylinder occasionally while at idle, or anywhere under 2.5K rpms. This occasional miss would only occur when the bike was fully warmed and the FAN WAS RUNNING. Another symptom of a failing CDI box.

Check your spark quality. Check your cranking, running, idling voltage. Critical for a healthy CDI box.

The fix for me, was some of everything. I went through and re-worked a bunch of wiring connectors for better voltage. I installed the bigger battery box mod to allow for a bigger CCA battery with more reserve voltage. I also ended up putting the newer styled R/R - my 85 was old styled. My problems were solved. It took me finding this forum for help to get mine fixed and I've hung here ever since.

 

[tman54]

You guys are blowing my mind with all these great ideas and shared experiences. Thanks for taking the time. What a great forum. Will keep you posted how it goes.

Still...no one has responded to my question of "should I first try spraying starter fluid somewhere?". I also read on a post somewhere that someone used WD 40 for this. Does that qualify as starter fluid? And where would I spray. Sorry...I'm still a basic amateur in all this.

Thanks alorio for the encouragement to keep the bike. I really would like to leave it to someone in my will. I guess I just need patience...and learn how to "tinker"

 

[davesax36]

Started fluid is usually used by us to test for air leaks around all the boots that lead from the airbox into the carbs and intake. It has been suggested to me a couple times on here to stay away from spraying it into the carbs. It actually explodes instead of burning, and you could potentially make a small problem worse.

have you done the "reconditioning the right had switches" thing yet? We can hope it's your starter button.

I'll have to go back and read this thread again to see if there's any actual help I can provide.


OK.

Does running the choke fully open change anything in the starting process? If so, then you're looking at (probably) clogged pilot jets. They control the fuel that's getting in when the throttle is closed. The "choke" which is actually a coasting enrichener on this bike, allows fuel in to bypass that portion of the fuel path. Does blipping the throttle while cranking to anything?

 

[Traumahawk]

Still...no one has responded to my question of "should I first try spraying starter fluid somewhere?". I also read on a post somewhere that someone used WD 40 for this. Does that qualify as starter fluid? And where would I spray. Sorry...I'm still a basic amateur in all this.

I'm NOT a big fan of starting fluid. If you have to use starting fluid....there are other issues at work.

 

[jfeagins]

I wouldn't go anywhere near your bike with starting fluid. Harsh chemicals in it might be bad for plastic and/or painted surfaces. Like Eric said, if it isn't firing on good gas, you have a problem, and starting fluid will not help fix anything.

 

[tman54]

Ok...staying away from the fluid then. I have found a number of youtube videos that help explain some of the things you guys are saying. Here are links to what I deem the most interesting. If any others to share...let me know. Just trying to shareback from my time spent here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRBshvCYTvo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c945YwT8F-U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2NIDcqv59I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5iQMFARib4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyfOyNksKKc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYzrByJUoGY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaSKU2m3qbI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRQ45lT2d3c


Now...what kind of tool kit should I buy to start "tinkering"? Nope...don't even have tools outside of my allpurpose Stanley foldup screwdriver and wrench tool. ( I do have basic scewdrivers, hammer and plyers). Stop laughing now...and just tell me what tools I need. I definitely need a mulltimeter I can see from the videos

 

[Lew L]

Hi 54,

Tools-------
Metric wrench set ( combination)
Metric sockets and driver ( with extensions and swivels)
Quality screwdrivers
Good plyer set ( needle nose, 45*needle nose, vise grips)
Carb tune ( for syncronizing the carbs)

There is plenty more---- including a good tool box to hold it all. Other will help you out.

Lew