Steering bearing/furbur/lock washer question

[bazwell]

The bloke who owned my 85 before me told me he had looked at the furbur fix info online, and decided that the rubber washer didn't do anything, so he threw it away.
I had a bike shop look at the steering bearings, grease them up and adjust them. They told me I would need new bearings soon.
I bought the adjusting tool from Dinghy on e-bay, a set of new bearings, and because of what the previous owner said, I bought a "no more wobble washer" off e-bay as well.

When I pulled my front end off I found parts in the order of pic1 attached.
I figure someone has put the rubber washer in the wrong spot, and thrown away the "lock washer" that appears on the Yamaha diagram.

I think I should put it together in the order of pic3.
Is this right?
Do I need a lock washer?
HELP! :bang head:

 

[[email protected]]

Picture 3 looks ALMOST right. You are missing the lockwasher or whatever you want to call it. The special washer locks the top and bottom nuts together. It fits in the "grooves" of both lock nuts. If you have new bearings, and they are properly adjusted, you do not need the "furber fix".

At least I never did.

Proper sequence of install is

1. bearing cap- looks like a big washer, it is on the left in alll your pics
2. castellated nut
3. rubber washer or furber fix washer in your case
4. castellated nut
5. lock washer that lock the grooves of part 2 and 4 together

Nuts 2 and 4 have a beveled edge on them. The bevel goes faces downward.

 

[ninjaneer]

...If you have new bearings, and they are properly adjusted, you do not need the "furber fix".

mabdcmb you are by far more knowledgable than me, but isn't the purpose of that rubber washer just as important as the locking washer? as you know, i've had my doubts about the furber washer when i first put it in when i replaced my cruddy bearings, eventually taking it out and leaving it on the bench for a few months because i thought it didn't provide any additional benefits. however, in trying to figure out why i had to keep tightening the bearing every 500 or so miles, i reckoned that my rubber washer had deteriorated past its ability to provide whatever purpose it was intended for, and reintroduced the furber washer--it has kept my bearings nicely torqued and my steering wobble-free ever since (that was about 2400 miles ago).

i guess my opinion for bazwell is to replace that tired rubber washer with either a new one or the furber washer. and most definately get a locking washer in there--i believe it's suppose to help keep the bottom washer from vibrating loose.

 

[bazwell]

I actually don't understand the Furbur fix. I can't find any original website which shows what it is. The links I have found on this forum say that the order of the nuts and the washer should be changed, but there is no mention of the aluminium washer that I have.

It seems quite hard to find a reliable source of information!

I decided to put the aluminium washer in between the 2 nuts because that's what seems logical to me after looking into it. Furbur or not furbur.... I don't know!

Now I am thinking I need to get a lock washer. Damn.

 

[bazwell]

Progress made.

 

[ninjaneer]

I actually don't understand the Furbur fix. I can't find any original website which shows what it is. The links I have found on this forum say that the order of the nuts and the washer should be changed, but there is no mention of the aluminium washer that I have.

It seems quite hard to find a reliable source of information!

I decided to put the aluminium washer in between the 2 nuts because that's what seems logical to me after looking into it. Furbur or not furbur.... I don't know!

Now I am thinking I need to get a lock washer. Damn.

That aluminum washer is essentially the "furber fix", so you are good there. The order that you installed the pieces is what it should be in order to be effective. Furber's actual instructions states to put the washer on top of the top nut, but it doesn't make sense and is the reason why I doubted the washer's benefits a while back. Anyways put that locking washer in and you'll be good to go.

regards from my tapatalking android...

 

[Miles Long]

I actually don't understand the Furbur fix. I can't find any original website which shows what it is. The links I have found on this forum say that the order of the nuts and the washer should be changed, but there is no mention of the aluminium washer that I have.

It seems quite hard to find a reliable source of information!

I decided to put the aluminium washer in between the 2 nuts because that's what seems logical to me after looking into it. Furbur or not furbur.... I don't know!

Now I am thinking I need to get a lock washer. Damn.

Mike is right regarding the order of assembly - and that you are missing a vital piece, the locking washer.
As for the Furbur fix - that is a subject that is debated on this forum nearly as much as crankcase oil type! My own experience with "The Fix" has been nothing but positive. I had a pronounced low-speed wobbling issue (30-50 kph), from the time the bike was purchased new in 2003. The dealer adjusted the headstock bearings, with no improvement. After I bought a service manual and starting wrenching on the bike myself, I tried several adjustments, using given torque values, then "bounce" settings. Nothing worked. And yes, I had checked the condition of the bearings themselves, which were in flawless condition. I just resigned myself to the fact that the bike had this inherent condition, and that I would have to live with it.
Then is the spring of 08, I experienced a viscious "Tank Slapper" at about 30kph, after hitting a small section of broken pavement. I nearly lost the bike. I had the tools with me needed to check the headstock , everything was as I had left it. I limped home, knowing that something had to be done(I was leaving that week , for a tour of western Canada)
Consequently, I researched the Furbur Fix, and performed it, as per instructions, with one exception - I made my own washer out of stainless steel, which of course is much less compressible than aluminum.
Since then, there has been absolutely no low-speed wobbling issues. I've put 55,000 kilometers on the bike following the fix, and checked the bearings once during that interval. All is well.
I know many people dismiss this alteration as "useless",and ask "How could an aluminum washer make a difference?" I wonder - could it be the stainless washer that explains my good fortune?
I have another theory as to why replacing a rubber washer with a metal one can have such a profound effect on low-speed performance. My thoughts are based on experiences gained in my previous line of work (industrial machinery vibration analysis) But since I no longer have access to the instrumentation needed to prove my theory, I won't expand on that topic.
Bottom line - assemble your bike, as per o.e.m method. If you still have a wobble, tighten the bearings as per Sean Morley's "bounce test" video. If this doesn't work, install a stainless washer, redo the bounce test and tightening. And above all - let us know your results.
Cheers! Miles

 

[bazwell]

Thanks y'all!

Miles, I find the debate about the Furbur fix quite interesting!

When you say "I researched the Furbur Fix, and performed it, as per instructions", does this mean you tightened the head stem up to 30ft/lb, backed it off, and then adjusted it to give the correct amount of drag, all with a stainless washer in between the 2 nuts?

 

[Miles Long]

Thanks y'all!

Miles, I find the debate about the Furbur fix quite interesting!

When you say "I researched the Furbur Fix, and performed it, as per instructions", does this mean you tightened the head stem up to 30ft/lb, backed it off, and then adjusted it to give the correct amount of drag, all with a stainless washer in between the 2 nuts?

Sorry for the delay answering. Just got back from a magical kayaking excursion, one of the best paddles I've had in years. Warm temps, lots of wildlife, great scenery.........what were we talking about?????
Oh yeah, that Furbur Fix thing. I fiollowed Tim Jackson's original instructions, just google "Furbur Fix instructions", it comes right up. Like I said earlier, I made my own washer out of stainless, using a washer I had already (I think it was 11/8" i.d.) I just had to cut down the o.d. The thickness was very close to what was suggested.
As for tightening, I think (this was three years ago), I didn't use a torque wrench at all, I just tightened the lower slotted nut until the front end was just starting to bind - enough so that it would still drop to the stops, but not bounce at all. For the top slotted nut (yes, the s.s. washer is between these two nuts), I tightened it using a punch and hammer, until light hammer blows didn't move it (make sure the lower nut is not moving-tightening-while you do this) You still have to line up slots between the two nuts in order to use the locking washer. Then the top triple tree, and nut and washer for it, to specified torque.
One final thing I did - I match-marked all the components with a paint marker pen, including the triple tree nut(match-marked to the tree itself). This way, I can return to the original settings, after checking/relubing the headstock bearings. (Matchmarking also serves as a quick visual check, to make sure nothing has loosened).As mentioned, I did this once already, last spring. The bearings were in great condition, no wear apparant(if so, I would have had to tighten the lower nut more, to compensate), so I reset everything to the matchmarks. So essentially nothing has changed since doing the fix in June of 08, 55,000 k ago. Still rock solid , no wobble at all.
Hope this helps.

 

[85vmax]

I bought my washer from Furbur himself, but can't really remember who's instalation instructions I used since there are a bunch out there.
Similer to miles......
I had the wobble...torqing and all that stuff didn't work.
Bearings were good so regreased.
I installed as pictured aluminum washer between the nuts.
Tightened just like miles...with a punch and hammer.
Also did the bounce test, and retightened again.
I have 13,000 miles on the bike since the fix, no low speed shake (never had it anyway)
And no high speed shake (which I had a little before the fix)
And guess what...I just checked
NO Lock Washer.....I could have sworn my instructions said not to use it.
I also had marked the nuts and the stem....no movement....so that works also.
Just my 3 cents.

 

[bazwell]

I understand that a rubber washer will deteriorate, and possibly cause the stem to come a little loose. I have had high speed wobbles on mine. You take your hands of the bars at speed and the bars start to oscillate.
This I put down to a slightly loose steering head.
I imagine this - the bike is still upright and going straight. Thats because the rider is balancing it. But the front wheel starts to move to one side, like a pendulum hanging from the steering stem. Thats enough to make the front wheel turn, in exactly the same way as laying it over, which causes the oscillation. As it swings left, it turns right, and then swings right etc etc etc.

So I'm OK with the replacement of the washer for something that won't deteriorate, like aluminium. That high speed wobble sucks when you want to shuffle cards or light a smoke or whatever.

But a low speed wobble... thats completely different.
At low speed the same sort of wobble won't occur, partially becaue you usually wait until you are up to speed to take your hands off, and partially because the wheel isn't spinning as fast and the rider would automatically compensate because the oscillations are smaller.

I think that's something mis-aligned. Especially seeing as how it was there from new. Maybe it just finally suddenly settled. Has it got 666 on the number plate? Thats just freaky. Maybe it got the hiccups or something.

Yeah, that's it... the hiccups. Bikes are funny like that.

By the sounds of it the Furbur fix was moving or replacing the rubber so that the bearings stay correctly adjusted. Removing the squishyness. Rubber has a higher co-efficient of squisheyness and makes your straightness go all squiffy. Yeah, thats it.

 

[Miles Long]

"So I'm OK with the replacement of the washer for something that won't deteriorate, like aluminium. That high speed wobble sucks when you want to shuffle cards or light a smoke or whatever. "

" Thats just freaky. Maybe it got the hiccups or something."

"Yeah, that's it... the hiccups. Bikes are funny like that. "

"Rubber has a higher co-efficient of squisheyness and makes your straightness go all squiffy. Yeah, that's it."



Problem confirmed . Your head bearings are a tad on the loose side. Yeah, that's it.

Once a jolly swagman camped by a billabong
Under the shade of a coolibah tree,
And he drank, and he smoked, while he waited for his billy to boil...........
"You'll come a-Waltzing Matilda, with me"unk:
Cheers, Mate!

 

[wildweasel_pt]

Nuts 2 and 4 have a beveled edge on them. The bevel goes faces downward.

The bevels or chanfers face each other, this is teh lower nut has chanfer up and upper nut has chanfer down. Thats how it was on my bike when it was stock...

By the way im using only one nut in my stem and i have no issues. The top triple locks it in place it can only tighten more. The top triple doesn't allow it to unscrew becasue its locked in place by the top triple nut. im using the bearing cover and one castellated nut and thats all...

 

[bazwell]

Miles,
Chuck another shrimp on the barbie for us will ya?! :banana:

All of you - thanks for your input. I just about lost the plot trying to get the inner races out. I don't have a welder, and I was worried I was just going to stuff things up. The "correct" way to set up the bearings was just one more thing I didn't need to stress over!!

I put the bevels downwards. And I got a lock washer too. And I used an aluminium washer. And I did Seans bounce test. And I also ground a couple of grooves in the headstem so there is somewhere to get a drift on the inner races, for next time.

All bases covered! ROCK ON unk: