The gremlins are back!

[Tex85]

Second time this issue has happened to me.

I went to fire my bike up today to go get lunch; vboost cycled, fuel pump clicked, hit the start very briefly and it didn't get started all the way. Hit the start button again and nothing at all. No electrical at all even though the key remained in the on position.

Cycled the key and toggled the kill switch a few times, opened the faux tank and checked the fuses. Removed the seat and inspected all the wires connected to the battery plus my main ground. Everything looked to be in order. After a few minutes of doing nothing but inspecting the bike I turn the key on and power is back...

The one other previous time this happened was last week and the behavior was identical. I figured my battery was dead for some odd reason, went to jump the bike and after connecting the ends to my bike I tapped the other side of the cable together and they sparked... At that point I cycled the key and it was fine again.

The only other light I can shed on the situation is the fact I went through a TON of rain last week (prior to the first occurrence of this problem) on my way back from NC. Everything had been thoroughly drenched from head to toe. Is it possible the start button or kill switch might have gotten water inside and could be causing an intermittent short? If so, what is the best recommendation for disassembling and cleaning of that control box.

Thank you Vmax electrical gurus in advance! :clapping:

 

[m-cman]

One potential problem, the start button occasionally sticks. When this happens, hit the start button and release quickly so it will pop back out then try again. A good cleaning and greasing will fix if this is the problem. A search will probably find the best way to clean.

 

[Tex85]

The start button itself physically moves and in and out on each depression. I have seen on other bikes where it is an issue because the button gets stuck depressed but that is not happening in my case.

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[jfeagins]

Try taking it apart to see if it needs cleaned inside there, or whether or not it's connections look OK or maybe worn out.

If it were the start button malfunctioning, I'd think you could see good, strong headlight after the key is turned on, and before the start button is depressed. If your start button is making some contact, I'd think the headlight would go out temporarily. If it does not - bad start switch. If the headlight is going dark during depressing the start button, but still no attempts to start from the starter, you could have a bad starter switch, bad starter relay, or the starter itself may be going bad.

 

[Miles Long]

Second time this issue has happened to me.

I went to fire my bike up today to go get lunch; vboost cycled, fuel pump clicked, hit the start very briefly and it didn't get started all the way. Hit the start button again and nothing at all. No electrical at all even though the key remained in the on position.

Hi Tex-

If by "no electrical at all" you mean completely dead (no lights , no starter, no horn, etc) - the cause could be only a few things.
- battery post connections
- main fuse (30 amp) and fuse holder connections.
- red power wire to ignition switch connector (red, blue, brown)
- the above connector itself (has a history of failure - best to eliminate completely)
- the ignition switch , only making intermittant connections between red power and brown (to fuse box) wires.
I'd start with the easy stuff - cleaning and/or eliminating those pesky connectors. And maybe change out the 30 amp fuse, using the spare that's included next to it.
Cheers!

 

[Tex85]

You are the best Miles and your assumption on my definition of no electrical at all is correct. Ill start there and report back with my findings. Unfortunately it may be a week and a half until I get to try, found out today I have to head tomorrow through next Friday.

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[Fire-medic]

This is about a suspected light switch malfunction, which turned-out not to be the case, but still a good idea of what/how to deal w/your starter switch and the pod. Check the link in there too, ninjaneer did a good job in his thread.

The shiny stuff in the 2nd pic is dielectric grease on both the contact halves for the rocker switch.
http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=30145&highlight=light+switch

I had a cracked-in-two brass casting for a battery + terminal awhile-ago (3rd pic). It was the battery terminal, not a wire loom battery terminal clamp or metal crimp or solder fitting. It made intermittent contact and revealed itself pretty-quickly when I began trouble-shooting. The battery was about 6 months old and the distributor warrantied it. No I didn't do it tightening the fixture excessively, and the machine screw was shorter than the brass threaded casting it fit.

 

[Tex85]

Thanks for the tips Fire-Medic, I was hoping to take a stab at it tonight before heading out tomorrow but after working 15 hours I think tackling the issue in this state of mind will not lead to anything good. I'll be jumping on this when I get back in town and let you all know how it goes.

When it comes to the issue you had with your battery that would likely have been the last thing I would check, now it will be one of the first

 

[Fire-medic]

Thanks for the tips Fire-Medic, I was hoping to take a stab at it tonight before heading out tomorrow but after working 15 hours I think tackling the issue in this state of mind will not lead to anything good. I'll be jumping on this when I get back in town and let you all know how it goes.

When it comes to the issue you had with your battery that would likely have been the last thing I would check, now it will be one of the first

Another thing that can happen is that your battery may have an internal intermittent short problem. Usually when a battery loses an in-series strap due to a stress fracture or whatever causes it to break, you just end-up w/a dead battery. If it's the last strap that goes to either the + or - external battery terminal, then there is a possibility that it could be making intermittent contact, causing the battery to work one time but not the next. The battery developed an 'open' circuit, and suddenly, you lose all power, as-if you removed the main fuse, turned-off the ignition switch, or disconnected the battery cable, because in-effect, that's exactly what happened. If the 'open' connection 'closes,' then the electrons once-again have their intended path to travel to do useful work. Power is restored, but for how-long?

If the battery shorts internally, there should be no power at all. That's a 'dead-battery.' Dead as a doornail as they say.

Problems with the ignition box can also cause a failure of the engine to run, which-is to-say, to start, or to continue to run. This is especially-hard to diagnose, unless you have a replacement ignition box to swap-in. I had a problem like that which caused me to consider switching boxes but it turned-out to be a bad ignition pick-up coil down by the stator/rotor. The engine would start and run flawlessly, but after a few miles/minutes, the coil would develop an 'open' circuit, and it was like an invisible hand turned-off the ignition. Lights, horn, brake lights all worked, the engine spun, but no running engine. If I let the bike cool-down, the ignition pick-up coil would develop a 'closed' circuit and once-again allow the engine to run. You know how-expensive those are, right? 1985-1989 uses two pairs, while the 1990+ uses a single coil.

If you start from the source of power and trace the circuits you should eventually discover the cause, it's tedious, and frustrating. :damn angry:

The presence of good grounds is a mandatory requirement. Connectors fail, and may be difficult to see unless you open them and check for the individual pins being free of corrosion, and a well-landed wire connection to each pin, male & female. When I was resurrecting my bike, I found that the R/R plug was brown from overheating. When I unplugged the connection, I saw that one of the terminal pairs was badly-corroded. When I checked that wire on one-side of the connector, it pulled loose of the plug, terminal remaining inside, completely broken in-two, wire from the brass terminal. I soldered on another terminal, removed each of the other individual connector terminals on each side, checking them for intact function, and replaced them. Many people on here just remove the plastic connectors entirely and solder the wires from the R/R to the wire harness. Don't forget the heat-shrink tubing!

 

[putin]

Happen to me couple of times. Own Vmax 2006 10. 000 mi for a 3 months. I just turn kill switch off and on, wait a little bit and started again. Bike started. I thought i did something wrong. Keep post your research.

 

[Tex85]

Well I am not sure which step fixed it, or even if it is fixed at this point. I went through everything electrical on the bike and gave it a good thorough cleaning with electrical cleaner. After doing so I could not reproduce the issue no matter hour hard I tried. The true test will be tomorrow when I take it out for 150-200 miles. The times it hung up on me before were after riding for awhile, stopping briefly, then trying to go again.

Thanks again for all the tips, they came in handy for the disassembly and more importantly the reassembly!

 

[ninjaneer]

where you going?

 

[Tex85]

Heading from Orlando into Lake County then running around the small twisty roads surrounding the different lakes. Might hit up the Eustis Gun Club as well for an afternoon skeet competition.

 

[ninjaneer]

very cool. have fun