unknown noise

[user 16790]

hello guys, just me and my not understanding electrics again
as my bike is off the road now due to bad weather it just sits in my garage waiting, I put a charger on the battery every three weeks or so to keep it good, and I also start it and let it warm up occasionally,
twice now while starting it from a few weeks standing it has made strange noises,
the first time happened when I put the key in the ignition, before I even turned the key there was a noise that sounded like the starter motor tried to turn, it was only for a split second, I was unable to recreate the noise or happening, the bike still started and ran ok once the key was turned on and the starter button pressed,
a few weeks on (yesterday) I put the key in the ignition deliberately listening for the noise I heard last time but it never happened,
this time though as I turned the key there was a couple of 'sparking' sounds which happened incredibly quickly before the v-boost and fuel pump activated, turning the key off and on again could not reproduce this sparking sound, again the bike started and ran fine,
my thinking is it might be a shorting somewhere as my garage does suffer condensation at times and I was wondering if anybody else may have experienced something similar, thanks for reading

 

[MaxMidnight]

This condition isn't something I have ever read about. IMO any suggestion would be guess work and therefore suggest that you try to rule out what it isn't.

I doubt that it would be a short, the main fuse or one of the subsidiaries will blow if that is the case. If the fuse didn't blow then I'd expect to see some smoke!
If there is condensation on the bike then that shouldn't affect loom or connectors that are in good condition. The HT system has sufficient current to find a shorter route to earth but that isn't your problem.

My guess (and it is no more than that) would be that the starter button is making very slight contact due to sticking or damaged contacts. Once it has 'sparked' the contact is lost and normal service is resumed.

Perhaps you should offer a prize for the suggestion that is closest to the final solution?

 

[tinman22]

my new one would also do it. if i put the key in and give it even the slghtest turn it would put power to either a coil or several and it would either pop out a carb or backfire out the exhaust. it would also rotate the engine in whichever way was easiest. sometimes
iit would push the motor over backwards engaging the starter clutch and turning the starter just a bit.

It did it pretty consistantly during the carb wars of 2020 whe i would take them off several times a day. After taking them off i would plug the fuel line, to make sure it was plugged i would cycle the pump with the key, it would do it almost every time. There was also quite a bit of fuel dumped in the intake from the fuel line prior to plugging

I figured that it was normal ignition function only visible due to fuel being in the intake. since it quit after the carbs were sorted out.

 

[user 16790]

thanks guys, I will check the starter button, is it possible that something in the ignition barrel could be a bit faulty meaning that the key could make a circuit somehow, just guessing, electrics are my binary code

 

[MaxMidnight]

As far as I know as you turn the key the contacts slide over their opposite number to make the circuit.
Going into the realms of imagination I suppose it may be possible for one of the two circuits to be energised before the other but if that has any relevance to your condition would be speculation.

In all probability it is something that they do and is not indicative of a fault.
For this sort of 'problem' it is often best to live with it and see if it develops. If it does that should make diagnosis (slightly) easier and if it doesn't then just enjoy riding it.

 

[02GF74]

The most logical explanation is that it has been possessed by evil spirits, inserting a clove of garlic into each exhaust will ward them away.

Was the charger connected when any of this happened? What position is the engine kill switch - is it fully disengaged?

Inserting key does nothing with the switch so that is a mystery; turning it will make contact to power up the electrics.

You wouldn't be mistaking the starter motor sound for the fuel pump?

I would recommend spraying WD40 into the ignition barrel and the starter switch, remember "WD-40" is abbreviated from the term "Water Displacement, 40th formula so it won't do harm.

my new one would also do it. if i put the key in and give it even the slghtest turn it would put power to either a coil or several and it would either pop out a carb or backfire out the exhaust. it would also rotate the engine in whichever way was easiest. sometimes it would push the motor over backwards engaging the starter clutch and turning the starter just a bit.

Demons again? When the engine is stopped, quite possible one cylinder has drawn down petrol but has not ignited and rests in the power - it may be in a postion that fires the coil causing it to fire, remember the piston is sealed as the valve are closed so the petrol won't have evoporated. Backfires is mixture ignition in the exhaust indicating carb/ignition issues.

 

[desert_max]

. . .

It did it pretty consistantly during the carb wars of 2020 ...

Sorry to distract from this thread, but this was funny as hell.

My 78 Goldwing does something similar. Occasionally the starter will engage when I jiggle the ignition switch. Never really concerned me, it’s not a short, it’s an intermittent contact being made with the switch (button) itself. I suspect condensation is contributing, and cleaning up the contacts would help, but I wouldn’t bother unless it really becomes an issue.

 

[tinman22]

nope mine was absolutely starter engagement in reverse (motor spinning starter). kill switch was in the on position. The first time it did it i backfired out the exhaust and woke the dog up. It was loud enough for my wife to call me from the house and yell at me for shooting at the squirrels in the loft.

once or twice it did it with no report but spun the motor backwards a bit.

when i first got it home it wouldn't start so i gave it a shot of ether and put the filter back on no.4 turned the key and blew the filter of with enough force to break the light over the bike.

I've had points bikes do it by sticking a screw driver between the contacts with the key on.

i figured it was a combo of cdi box fluffy stuff and flammable stuff in the big holes.

 

[user 16790]

again thank you, the kill switch is in the normal run position, it is definitely not the fuel pump as it was a totally different noise, I will look at the switch and clean and apply wd40 or similar to the ignition switch, as it has only done it twice and each time after the bike has been stood for a few weeks I will do as mentioned above and live with it, it doesn't seem to affect the bike in any way,
maybe it is some form of static build up release created by the demons, we do have a welcoming demon sign over our gate but can never use garlic, it is not allowed in our garden or house and neither is anyone who has eaten it recently either, it makes me very ill if I accidently ingest it or even smell it on other people !

 

[MaxMidnight]

I will look at the switch and clean and apply wd40 or similar to the ignition switch,

Suggest that you avoid using WD40 or any oil based lubricants in lock as this can allow dust and dirt to adhere onto the tumblers and cause them to stick.
If you want to add some form of lube then use a graphite powder which will lubricate without the potential to gum things up.
Same goes for these lock de-icer sprays. This will wash out any lubricant and allow condensation to form and cause sticking in freezing conditions. Free them up with hot water or hot air.

 

[user 16790]

ok, thanks for the advice, I'll get some graphite powder

 

[02GF74]

Suggest that you avoid using WD40 or any oil based lubricants in lock as this can allow dust and dirt to adhere onto the tumblers and cause them to stick.

Interesting idea that never occurred to me.

The Vmax lock has a little metal flap that should stop dust, grit, ants etc from getting inside.

Also i've been spraying wd40 and chain lube into my front door and garage locks and never had a proplem with either getting bunged up with dirt. Admittedly this is infrequent, maybe once every few years and those don't have flap, are more exposed and get used typically twice daily.

I seem to remember reading about using a HB pencil to apply graphite to items.

An alternative to wd40 is switch cleaner? The suggestion was to dispell any moisture.

 

[Fire-medic]

There have been times when I had a recalcitrant lockset, and the only thing I've been able to use to free it up, is a shot of carb cleaner, followed by WD-40. I have a couple of tubes of graphite I've also used to lube a lock, but when you cannot even insert the key without resistance, to the point of being in-danger of breaking the key just by forcing it into the keyway (disclosure: I am not a locksmith) that tells me that pins are bound probably because of a combination of congealed lubricant, a lack of it, oxidation (verdigris), or possibly some contaminant causing the sticking of the pins in their bores.

I have a trailer lock which has given me decades of service, and that's the method by-which I've been able to use it. It's a larger Master Lock, I dunno the #, but it's a typical riveted/laminated shackle lock, with a traditional key, probably between 4 to 5" long. The shackle hoop is probably 3/8" thick. It sits close to the ground, so it's probably a candidate for accumulating dirt. However, the occasional use of PB Blaster has helped it to stay in-service. If I have a lock with sticky pins, that's when the solvent followed by the powdered graphite gets called to-duty.

One thing about wear in a switch, such-as your ignition switch, is to not-have multiple keys or a large key ring, or a wind-catching key fob prematurely causing wear on the switch.

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[MaxMidnight]

An alternative to wd40 is switch cleaner? The suggestion was to dispel any moisture.

I would say no as this would probably remove any lubricant. It may be OK if you fol;lowed that up with the graphite powder?

 

[user 16790]

I ordered some of the graphite powder, is it best to clean out other lubricants first as I have used GT85 (like WD40) in my locks and electrics for a while, will it turn to mush if there are any signs of liquid in it and will it be affected by water from washing etc.
I have put lots of various oils in my MT03's ignition switch as it was really tight to turn, if I can I will try the graphite in that too

 

[MaxMidnight]

The short answer is that I don't know.
I'd be inclined to start by putting the powder on the key and work that in and out and see how it feels.
You could also try to flush what is in there with contact cleaner; I guess you would be starting with a clean slate (or should that be tumblers?).

 

[Fire-medic]

The short answer is that I don't know.
I'd be inclined to start by putting the powder on the key and work that in and out and see how it feels.
You could also try to flush what is in there with contact cleaner; I guess you would be starting with a clean slate (or should that be tumblers?).

I'm no locksmith.

Aren't tumblers in a combination lock, like a bank vault, while an Eaton-style keyed lock uses pins?

If I cannot even introduce a key into the keyway, then I'm gonna proceed with a combination of a solvent and a liquid lubricant, and a 'chaser' of powdered graphite.

 

[Screwloose]

The short answer is that I don't know.
I'd be inclined to start by putting the powder on the key and work that in and out and see how it feels.
You could also try to flush what is in there with contact cleaner; I guess you would be starting with a clean slate (or should that be tumblers?).

Just as you say it's electrical contact cleaner you use to clean electrical/electronics items as it leaves no residue and therefore is not conductive when it evaporates. Getting the solid and fluid crap out is the difficult part, so get spray (with a straw) electrical contact cleaner and use as much as you want to get it flushed out.
Just to add; it's the impurities in water and condensation that makes for a conductive contact.