Valve Clearance Gen 2

[g2gboom]

Hello all,

I began tearing into my Gen 2 for its overdue valve clearance job and I wanted to share my findings with the group.

Overall this job requires a lot of patience, garage space and a wide variety of tools. I called around to my local yamaha shops and they charged in the ballpark of 600-800$ for this job in labor alone. Weather isnt great here in the midwest so I figured id tackle it myself.

There are no shortcuts to this job, engine has to be dropped from the frame by a few inches to clear the valve covers. My recommendation before starting this is to make sure you at least have a rear stand, a low profile floor jack and a pair of good jack stands. I would also recommend having the vmax service manual handy for dissasembly and reassembly. Torque specs are important in this procedure and it also gives you information for valve clearances.

What I found:
The exhaust cams are extremely easy to take out, there isnt a cam chain going around the exhaust cams. So if you are able to line up the two reference punch holes on the intake and exhaust cam you can easily put this back together.

All of my exhaust valve clearances were out of spec. My stock valve pad sizes were between 180-186 (1.80mm - 1.86mm). My measurements were around .12-.16mm of clearance when the spec calls for .22-.29mm. So im off about two pad sizes.

They were all roughly in the same ballpark for clearance so I am shimming down all 8 to 170 pad size since yamaha only provides increments of .05mm.

Will post an update when I take final clearances.

-g2gboom

 

[D Larson]

What made you tackle the job? Total miles? Poor performance? This is much more than "I think I will change the oil."

 

[g2gboom]

What made you tackle the job? Total miles? Poor performance? This is much more than "I think I will change the oil."

Service interval called for 25k miles. Im at 32k so this has been long overdue.

 

[ouchez]

Hello all,

I began tearing into my Gen 2 for its overdue valve clearance job and I wanted to share my findings with the group.

Overall this job requires a lot of patience, garage space and a wide variety of tools. I called around to my local yamaha shops and they charged in the ballpark of 600-800$ for this job in labor alone. Weather isnt great here in the midwest so I figured id tackle it myself.

There are no shortcuts to this job, engine has to be dropped from the frame by a few inches to clear the valve covers. My recommendation before starting this is to make sure you at least have a rear stand, a low profile floor jack and a pair of good jack stands. I would also recommend having the vmax service manual handy for dissasembly and reassembly. Torque specs are important in this procedure and it also gives you information for valve clearances.

What I found:
The exhaust cams are extremely easy to take out, there isnt a cam chain going around the exhaust cams. So if you are able to line up the two reference punch holes on the intake and exhaust cam you can easily put this back together.

All of my exhaust valve clearances were out of spec. My stock valve pad sizes were between 180-186 (1.80mm - 1.86mm). My measurements were around .12-.16mm of clearance when the spec calls for .22-.29mm. So im off about two pad sizes.

They were all roughly in the same ballpark for clearance so I am shimming down all 8 to 170 pad size since yamaha only provides increments of .05mm.

Will post an update when I take final clearances.

-g2gboom

Nice job!!

 

[chargerblk]

Good on you ! I am @ 11 K now so have a ways to go. Plan to change plugs sometime this season
so will have a look see at that time. Looks ambitious but interesting.

 

[g2gboom]

Update:

READ THE SERVICE MANUAL!
Seriously, the camshaft section is only a few pages long. Turns out that my cams are worn past the advisable service limit set by Yamaha.
i.e. Lobes on a new camshaft will measure 32.825 - 32.900 mm. That is for both intake and exhaust cams. The service limit is 32.750mm.
My exhaust cam lobes wore the most and measured between 32.35-32.5mm.
Intake cam lobes looked a lot better at 32.5 - 32.71mm.

So what next?
Well I have a few options and I asked some of our forum members and members on the facebook group on how to proceed.

Option #1:
Shim it and send it. Just replace the shims that were out of spec and bolt it back up and send it. The lobes are already worn so its unlikely they will wear further. 32k Miles currently, next service interval is at 50k miles.

Option #2:
All new cams. If I can find them, an exhaust cam is approximately $700 ea and an intake cam is $200 ea.

Option #3:
Ship the current ones out to Webcamshafts in california to get hard chromed, welded and ground to factory specification.
Cost is $200 per camshaft plus shipping.

https://webcamshafts.com/pages_vehicles/motorcycle/yamaha/3224.html

Option #4:
Ship it out to Webcamshafts and have them grind a more agressive cam profile for a moderate boost on performance.
Im not to crazy on option#4 as Camshafts dont necessarily make additional power as much as they just move the power band a little.
I like the tune I have currently and love the linear torque curve, so I probably wont go this route.
Total cost for Option #4 is Approximately $2000.

Id like to hear the communities thoughts on this and get some input.
Ultimately, I love my Vmax and plan on riding it for years to come. This is just a cost of ownership and im not shying away from maintaining it.

-Brandon

 

[D Larson]

Update:

READ THE SERVICE MANUAL!
Seriously, the camshaft section is only a few pages long. Turns out that my cams are worn past the advisable service limit set by Yamaha.
i.e. Lobes on a new camshaft will measure 32.825 - 32.900 mm. That is for both intake and exhaust cams. The service limit is 32.750mm.
My exhaust cam lobes wore the most and measured between 32.35-32.5mm.
Intake cam lobes looked a lot better at 32.5 - 32.71mm.

So what next?
Well I have a few options and I asked some of our forum members and members on the facebook group on how to proceed.

Option #1:
Shim it and send it. Just replace the shims that were out of spec and bolt it back up and send it. The lobes are already worn so its unlikely they will wear further. 32k Miles currently, next service interval is at 50k miles.

Option #2:
All new cams. If I can find them, an exhaust cam is approximately $700 ea and an intake cam is $200 ea.

Option #3:
Ship the current ones out to Webcamshafts in california to get hard chromed, welded and ground to factory specification.
Cost is $200 per camshaft plus shipping.

https://webcamshafts.com/pages_vehicles/motorcycle/yamaha/3224.html

Option #4:
Ship it out to Webcamshafts and have them grind a more agressive cam profile for a moderate boost on performance.
Im not to crazy on option#4 as Camshafts dont necessarily make additional power as much as they just move the power band a little.
I like the tune I have currently and love the linear torque curve, so I probably wont go this route.
Total cost for Option #4 is Approximately $2000.

Id like to hear the communities thoughts on this and get some input.
Ultimately, I love my Vmax and plan on riding it for years to come. This is just a cost of ownership and im not shying away from maintaining it.

-Brandon

At 32K miles? I am really surprised.

 

[Traumahawk]

Update:

READ THE SERVICE MANUAL!
Seriously, the camshaft section is only a few pages long. Turns out that my cams are worn past the advisable service limit set by Yamaha.
i.e. Lobes on a new camshaft will measure 32.825 - 32.900 mm. That is for both intake and exhaust cams. The service limit is 32.750mm.
My exhaust cam lobes wore the most and measured between 32.35-32.5mm.
Intake cam lobes looked a lot better at 32.5 - 32.71mm.

So what next?
Well I have a few options and I asked some of our forum members and members on the facebook group on how to proceed.

Option #1:
Shim it and send it. Just replace the shims that were out of spec and bolt it back up and send it. The lobes are already worn so its unlikely they will wear further. 32k Miles currently, next service interval is at 50k miles.

Option #2:
All new cams. If I can find them, an exhaust cam is approximately $700 ea and an intake cam is $200 ea.

Option #3:
Ship the current ones out to Webcamshafts in california to get hard chromed, welded and ground to factory specification.
Cost is $200 per camshaft plus shipping.

https://webcamshafts.com/pages_vehicles/motorcycle/yamaha/3224.html

Option #4:
Ship it out to Webcamshafts and have them grind a more agressive cam profile for a moderate boost on performance.
Im not to crazy on option#4 as Camshafts dont necessarily make additional power as much as they just move the power band a little.
I like the tune I have currently and love the linear torque curve, so I probably wont go this route.
Total cost for Option #4 is Approximately $2000.

Id like to hear the communities thoughts on this and get some input.
Ultimately, I love my Vmax and plan on riding it for years to come. This is just a cost of ownership and im not shying away from maintaining it.

-Brandon

What would be the likelihood of the reground cams wearing? I am surprised of this at 32K.

 

[g2gboom]

Update:

I reached out to my local yamaha dealer/service center. Immediately got forwarded to the Master Tech with 40 years of service. We poured over the details together and got on a call with Yamaha themselves. Yamaha is impressed by the wear on my cams for the mileage and after showing them my documented service history and oil samples, does not suspect oiling or misuse. I asked if they would be willing to exchange these cams for a core-exchange but they politely declined. So I was advised to either purchase a new set of Cams or to send these out to get resurfaced.

I have heard good things about Webcamshafts but can't speak for the longevity of the resurfacing. Unfortunately I couldn't find any long term testimonials.
I could send these out and be back to where im at today in only a few years time. So for the time being, im posting up some parts for sale to cover the cost of the cams. Ill post updates when I get time.

-Brandon

 

[one2dmax]

Your gain (or loss) in redoing the cams, getting upgraded profile cams, or leaving what you have are probably not even recordable on the dyno. I can tell you that the gain we were shown from a real world install of the bigger cams was a whopping 2hp. That didn't even cover the variability from the install timeframe between the before/after measurements.

 

[g2gboom]

Your gain (or loss) in redoing the cams, getting upgraded profile cams, or leaving what you have are probably not even recordable on the dyno. I can tell you that the gain we were shown from a real world install of the bigger cams was a whopping 2hp. That didn't even cover the variability from the install timeframe between the before/after measurements.

So cam upgrade is off the table. I was hesitant to even consider it in the first place. Considering im sticking with stock measurements should I spring for new cams if I can find them or get the existing ones hardwelded and resurfaced?

 

[one2dmax]

So cam upgrade is off the table. I was hesitant to even consider it in the first place. Considering im sticking with stock measurements should I spring for new cams if I can find them or get the existing ones hardwelded and resurfaced?

Depends on your budget and desired. If you bother getting them changed then you may as well change the profile anyway. BUT, I am not sure i wouldn't just shim appropriately and drive on without spending any of that money in the first place. I am not sold that they need to have anything done.

 

[g2gboom]

Depends on your budget and desired. If you bother getting them changed then you may as well change the profile anyway. BUT, I am not sure i wouldn't just shim appropriately and drive on without spending any of that money in the first place. I am not sold that they need to have anything done.

Its tough to say. Yamaha was bewildered that they were worn that much. If the spec is 32.850 - 33.90 thats a small margin for error. With the service limit at 32.750 mm on all lobes. Mine coming in on average between 32.35 mm - 32.5mm we are talking 10ths of a millimeter off on a cold engine. Thats not accounting for the wear that could be taking place on the sides of the lobes either. And seeing as my shims were way off too on exhaust side id suspect these cams need work. What id like to do is order two new intake cams if possible and then send the exhaust cams to be hardwelded, chromed and resurfaced. Thatll run me $900 total.

 

[ouchez]

From all U have said I suggest buying new while they are available from Yama and enjoy! I am impressed by the work U have done.

 

[g2gboom]

Im hoping that by documenting my journey here it could make this job less daunting for others to try it.

 

[g2gboom]

Your gain (or loss) in redoing the cams, getting upgraded profile cams, or leaving what you have are probably not even recordable on the dyno. I can tell you that the gain we were shown from a real world install of the bigger cams was a whopping 2hp. That didn't even cover the variability from the install timeframe between the before/after measurements.

Was that the Grind 933 from Webcamshafts? Without looking at the Stock Cams specs I cant really tell where the increase is or what part of the power band is being robbed. I like low end torque and dont really care for RPMs or Upper HP. I just got a call back and I can source 2 new intake cams and 1 new exhaust cam from Yamaha, will be backordering the 2nd exhaust cam. The price difference between getting brand new hardware vs sending out my existing cams to get the performance grind is maybe $100.

If the juice isnt worth the squeeze id rather er, on the safe side and go stock. With only one testimonial on the performance cam im hesistant to jump on it.

 

[one2dmax]

I think they were web cams and their drop in cams (10 years ago). The gain was a whopping 2hp. Not exactly worth the spend.

 

[jfeagins]

One of our TX gen II riders had his cams reground (I've no idea of where), and while I can't say how much hp gain he got, I can say he wasn't able to navigate the twisties enough faster than his previous rides with the OEM cams still installed to justify how much it cost him. I can certainly verify the fact that he was the first person in the group to NEED MORE FUEL EVERY LEG OF OUR RIDE. I've turned on my red warning light on occasion with just less than 70 miles into the ride, but he was easily surpassing my need for more frequent fuel stops.

 

[one2dmax]

One of our TX gen II riders had his cams reground (I've no idea of where), and while I can't say how much hp gain he got, I can say he wasn't able to navigate the twisties enough faster than his previous rides with the OEM cams still installed to justify how much it cost him. I can certainly verify the fact that he was the first person in the group to NEED MORE FUEL EVERY LEG OF OUR RIDE. I've turned on my red warning light on occasion with just less than 70 miles into the ride, but he was easily surpassing my need for more frequent fuel stops.

Thus the 2hp gain he told me about.

 

[g2gboom]

Thus the 2hp gain he told me about.

Wow hard pass.
Heres my update:

I was able to confirm that there are three intake camshaft assemblies in Japan at the moment of writing this.
3 Exhaust camshaft assemblies of one part number.
The other is backordered.
With military discount applied (thanks partzilla!)
Im looking at $1800 with expedited shipping for new stock cams.

I will likely be selling my old ones for those adventerous enough to try a new cam profile and to recoup some of the money spent.

-Brandon