What is the method to properly torque ring and head nut.

[Saml01]

I rode a buddys Vmax and I was surprise at just how easy the thing rode. I was tooling around on my bike the other day and decided to check the ring nuts and head nut for correct torque. I noticed that the head nut was loose so I thought maybe ill check the ring nuts too . I tightened the rings nuts, and the tightened the head nut. Nothing crazy just what I thought was tight. Went for a ride and damn near died, the bike absolutely refused to hold a line. I had to fight it back and forth. I came home, raised the bike again, and checked how easily the forks moved. I found that it was very tight. I started loosening the ring nuts until the steering eased up, then I torqued the head nut to the point where the forks remained easy to turn.

Question is. I have been doing all this by feel.

Right now the bike rides better than when I started fucking with the steering. However, I am OCD when it comes to this stuff.

Is there a process to making sure that they are properly configured and torqued?

 

[SpecOps13]

Too Tight, Wander.
Too Loose Wobble.

Sean Morley has a video of how to get it there. See his section Sticky's General VMax Videos or something like that....

A little over half way down this page:http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=11514&page=3

 

[ninjaneer]

Too Tight, Wander. Too Loose Wobble.

Sean Morley has a video of how to get it there. See his section Sticky's General VMax Videos or something like that....

A little over half way down this page:http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=11514&page=3

:rofl_200:Spec you should add "Too Tight, Wander. Too Loose Wobble. Sean Morley has a video..." to your signature. I think you've said this at least three times this weekend.

 

[ninjaneer]

However, I am OCD when it comes to this stuff.
Is there a process to making sure that they are properly configured and torqued?

You will need one of the dingy's wrenches, which will allow you to torque the bottom ring nut first to 50 Nm (36.5 ft-lbs) and then lastly to 3 Nm (2.5 ft-lbs) after loosening the initial torque. Another way: slacken bottom ring nut until pressure is just released, tighten until all freeplay is removed, then tighten it a little more. Slacken the bottom nut, then tighten it again, setting it so that all freeplay is just removed yet the steering is able to move freely from side to side. I prefer the "bounce" method described Sean.

The top ring nut is finger tight and then tighten more until the notches line up.

The head nut is 110 Nm (80 ft-lbs).

 

[Saml01]

Thanks for the info, thats an excellent description.

I used the bounce method as well because I dont have a torque wrench. I road the bike after and there was no wobble or wander. However, why does the bike wander when you over tighten? At what speed does the wobble set in?


Spec-Ops, thanks for the video. That really helped. I was actually loosening the top jam nuts, not the bottom.

Now I know exactly what I need to do.

 

[[email protected]]

Don't forget to loosen the fork tube pinch bolts on the lower triple before making any adjustments. Tighten them after the two nuts are adjusted and the top nut is torqued

 

[ninjaneer]

Don't forget to loosen the fork tube pinch bolts on the lower triple before making any adjustments. Tighten them after the two nuts are adjusted and the top nut is torqued

good point mike. very important

 

[ninjaneer]

However, why does the bike wander when you over tighten? At what speed does the wobble set in?

i can only hypothesize wrt wander: to keep a properly torqued bike going straight down the road, you are actually constantly making very minute adjustments. when your subconscious tries to perform these same minor adjustments on an overly tight steering, the net effect is zero. so the bike continues in the same uncorrected direction resulting with the impression that the bike wanders off course.

wobble has been reported at both high and low speeds.

 

[RaWarrior]

You don't NEED one of the special castle nut wrenches. For the bounce test, a flat screwdriver and hammer works fine. Someone here also made a tool out of a suitably sized deep socket that he ground grooves into to fit the nuts. If you want to spec-torque it you do, but it's been reported that the specified torque isn't always what's "right" for that particular bike. Best way is just to play with it and see what works best.

Someone needs to make a sticky about wobble/wander/adjusting bearings. I swear every day someone's asking about this.

 

[[email protected]]

Agreed, special tool is not needed. Although it is nice. I just bought one and have only got to use it once.

I don't like the socket idea because I do not remove the upper triple when I adjust. I just loosen the top nut, loosen the lower pinch bolts, grab a chisel (preferably brass) that is wide enough to span both nuts and tap the nut tigher or looser. Bounce test, adjust accordingly, tighten the shit out of the top nut (i put blue loctite on it), then tighten the lower triple bolts and I'm done.

I noticed the bars like to fall to the left alot easier than to the right. I believe it is just the cables and wiring that make it do that. I've heard a couple others mention the same thing.

 

[SpecOps13]

Originally posted by saml01: "why does the bike wander when you over tighten? At what speed does the wobble set in?"

I can only express my opinion. Too tight, blocks the tiny inputs we give to the steering and the bike continues uncorrected until we overcorrect.

Wobble can be at many different points. I've seen it in first gear at very low speed just by removing one hand from the bars...It can be when slowing by braking. It can be at high speed. depends on the bike, the bearing condition and tightness or looseness. The tires or even the rider, position, weight... Wind too can be a factor...

JMHO.... Dave

 

[Saml01]

Awesome info guys, thanks. I did the adjustments as advised while loosening the lower triple and the bike handles better than before I played with it.

However, one thing I noticed. Torquing the head nut to 80 ftlbs is too much and causes binding in the steering again. Not to tight and its perfect.

I marked the headnut and ring nuts with marker to keep an eye on them.

 

[SpecOps13]

Mine on the 94 are still marked from doing the adjustment the first time too....:rofl_200::biglaugh:

 

[06VMAXIMUS]

I used dingy's wrench yesterday to tighten mine, and it worked fantastic! Money well spent, and you don't have to chew things up with a screwdriver.

 

[RaWarrior]

I noticed the bars like to fall to the left alot easier than to the right. I believe it is just the cables and wiring that make it do that. I've heard a couple others mention the same thing.

Yes, mine's like that as well. Think in Sean's video that's noticeable as well.

It's virtually impossible to even guess what speed wobble can appear. There's just so many factors that go into it as Dave said....condition of bearings, tire brand/model/wear, suspension setup, rider weight, rider positioning, on and on.

For me, the wobble would appear anywhere from ~100mph to never (steady at top end). Totally unpredictable when/if it would appear. Shifting my weight forward aka making your boys friendly with the airbox lid and hunkering down definitely seemed to help.

Sliding your forks up the tree is a help too. John at PCW suggested I do this, apparently it should have been done while the bike was in but wasn't. He suggested 3/4" drop in the trees. I did that and the handling was noticeably quicker, it was easier and "more willing" to lean over. I haven't got a chance yet to really run it up to the top end, but so far on a couple jaunts to 110-120 it's been steady.

 

[ninjaneer]

Torquing the head nut to 80 ftlbs is too much and causes binding in the steering again. Not to tight and its perfect.

hmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[Saml01]

I rode the bike up to 60 today and so far, faaaaaantastic. Bike is so much more responsive and so much easier to steer.

hmmmmmmmmmmmm

I honestly don't know where this number came from. I don't have a torque wrench so a lot of my wrenching goes by feel. Where I stopped, is definitely not 80lbs. Id say more like 35 - 45.

 

[ninjaneer]

I honestly don't know where this number came from. I don't have a torque wrench so a lot of my wrenching goes by feel. Where I stopped, is definitely not 80lbs. Id say more like 35 - 45.

80 ft-lbs comes from clymer and haynes. it's what i torque down to. but they aren't gospel, as i know some of the numbers they specify (like with some of the clutch bolts) will tear a bolt.

 

[SpecOps13]

Yamaha calls for too much torque in a lot of cases.. On the flip side, I have the left side covers torqued to hell and back in an attempt to stop oil leaks....:rofl_200:

 

[Saml01]

Yamaha calls for too much torque in a lot of cases.. On the flip side, I have the left side covers torqued to hell and back in an attempt to stop oil leaks....:rofl_200:

Next time use red permatex.