agenda 21, were fucked

[jethrobolas]

Agenda 21. Heard of it? Google it.
If this is for real, our future as a "free" society is in more trouble than we could have ever imagined. I'm not really a guy that worries about things, and I'm not into politics, but this got my attention and is scaring the shit out of me.

http://www.freedomadvocates.org/

 

[maxrom]

And i can had;

The real (hide) goal beside decision :ummm: are even more freaking
many comes from there G8 and G20 meetings

freedom`s just another word as said Janis J:bang head:

 

[[email protected]]

First I've heard of it.

So, in a nutshell, Agenda 21 is supposed to be about saving the environment but its REAL purpose is to put the gov't in control of all natural resources and therfore, all people?

 

[Redbone]

More information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agenda_21
Incrementalism is slowly erroding away at freedoms, tacit approval is where this is going unfortunatly.

 

[jethrobolas]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/what-is-agenda-21-after-watching-this-you-may-not-want-to-know/

Maybe I'm just overreacting, but this just bothers me. I can see it happening because it appears "green" on the surface and the environmentalists are steadly gaining strength. Communism for the benefit of mother earth. Treat human kind like livestock. No private ownership of anything. No permission to do what we want to as individuals. Population control.
And instead of doing it through war, fooling people into accepting it at the local level. Tricking people into asking for it. Just kind of a trip.

 

[ZackDaniels]

Yet another sensationalized thing that paints the UN as some big boogeyman that's out to storm your home and liberties. The UN is largely indifferent to the US, and nothing that goes on there can supersede our own laws and regulations. Our own laws and regulations can be made to comply, but that process is no different just because it's based on UN thing. I'm not sure how Americans can have such irrational fear of the UN after we invaded Iraq. Remember when they said going in was unsupported and would violate a handful of their regulations? Our response was 'we'll take that into consideration' and after about 2 seconds of thought we saw Baghdad being invaded on the news. Then in response the UN engaged it's vast network of super spies and stormtroopers to work tirelessly toward sinking the entire US government and THAT is when we truly understood that the Mad Max movies were not just entertainment, but a warning and fashion suggestion to future generations doomed by the UN's awesome power..... wait no, nothing at all happened as a result of that.

This is simply an outline for efficient use of resources. Meaning engineering government money to go into increased benefits to city living instead of infrastructure that encourages suburban sprawl, management of water and energy, etc. It means a whole lot more to undeveloped countries with only so much to go around. People living in urban and rural areas in an already developed superpower don't need to get hyped up over it.

It's a fact that concentrating populations into cities and community farming/production resources is far more efficient and cheaper. This is an outline for how to implement them and/or work toward improving them. If you want a detailed example about how this plays out have a listen to this story:
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/408/island-time

It's fascinating stuff.

 

[MtnMax/Magniac]

"It's a fact that concentrating populations into cities . . ."

. . . and leads to slums, gangs, anarchy . . .

 

[ZackDaniels]

Last I checked poverty and crime exist in rural areas too? Except as a developing nation you have to expand your public services out along with the population to adequately handle it. If you don't have the resources to spread out then it just goes totally unchecked, and the poor stay that way or come up under warlords, because the nation's communication and transport network is overextended and in dire straights.

This is an instruction set to help developing countries better handle their own, but it's being spun into government boogey man uprooting people in the US and controlling population. It has little to do with America or any other developed country.

 

[MtnMax/Magniac]

Last I checked poverty and crime exist in rural areas too? Except as a developing nation you have to expand your public services out along with the population to adequately handle it. If you don't have the resources to spread out then it just goes totally unchecked, and the poor stay that way or come up under warlords, because the nation's communication and transport network is overextended and in dire straights.

That's pretty much my point, concentrating the population compounds the problem of crime and poverty, putting more criminal activity in smaller areas, and some would say that gangs arise from a need for self-protection. They then evolve into anarchistic behavior, when they realize that their numbers give them power over the unorganized citizenry. A simplistic description, but valid nonetheless.
In rural areas, crime exists like everywhere else, but not in the volume of big urban concentrations, simply due to numbers.

 

[ZackDaniels]

I think you misunderstood. When I said spread I was speaking geographically, over distance. When your country is too poor to have a postal service it's also too poor to have a sheriff in every inhabited area. Thus in order to have any control of crime at all you need to convince your people to urbanize.

Listen to the first 5-10 minutes of that story I linked. You will start to understand what sort of problems this is intended to address (and how NGOs fuck a lot of things up). It covers part of what all that Haiti relief money went to as well. Remember all those celebrity phone drives after the earthquake?

As somebody who's born and raised in the US it's really hard to imagine not having basic utilities, postal service, and police/fire/ambulance/etc. It's impossible to understand not having at least the most basic of industry (mom and pop storefronts and what not). There are loads of villages and cities in developing countries that don't have this, and what's more they can't because there's no infrastructure to allow for it. I've done a bit of work in the Caribbean (setting up land record tracking and review of their emergency response system when my company was contracted by their government to do so), and if I didn't see it with my own eyes I don't think I'd be able to picture it. That was a small and reasonably developed island too.

Agenda 21 is a 400 page suggestion on how to bring all those villages into urban areas where it's easier to setup and more difficultly to maintain these things. As well as making it much easier to concentrate relief efforts as necessary. It has jack to do with changing the American way of life, because by and large it simply doesn't apply.

 

[ouchez]

Be prepared to fight and die to protect the Constitution and the Bill Of Rights, simple as that, don't worry, fight.

O

 

[jethrobolas]

Actually, I am heading out to make my next arms purchase tomorrow. Went to buy it before thanksgiving, did the paperwork, and the FBI " delayed" me on it. 3 weeks later DICKS finally got the proceed from the feds. Last time it took about an hour. I don't think I will be buying from that store again. Under current law, if delayed, the store is allowed to legally complete the sale after 3 days if not denied. DICKS company policy is to wait for a "proceed" from the feds. I sent in my vaf to the FBI so I can get my upin to try to avoid this in the future, but that will take months. I doubt things will ever get so bad that I will need to kill
(and be killed) to stay on my property. If it does come to that, I will do what is necessary to live free, keep my land, and protect my family.

 

[jethrobolas]

Zack, its already happening here. Santa Cruz ca, Austin tx. If they can get people on board in Texas, do you think Chicago is immune to it? The mayor is reducing traffic lanes right now to make "bicycle only" lanes. Better start searching eBay to see if they sell a pedal ( as in bicycle pedal) kit for your max.

 

[Redbone]

But what if those rural folks don't want to "herded" into urban areas so they can be "taken care of" by the goverments "good will". Look at what happened to the native americans when the goverment thought the resevation agency's could do a better job of feeding them. Do you think they went to these reservation agency of their own free will? Do you think they would be given prime land for their reservations?
I for one am glad I do not live in a large population area, "if" anything were to go down it will be easier to control large populations and they wouldn't waste their intial efforts at chasing people down in rural areas.

 

[jethrobolas]

I work in shitcago but live on 12 acres 80 miles out of the city. Used to think I had a long drive. Now I wonder if I am far enough. Sure we have crime in the rural areas, but nothing that even comes close to what happens in the city. I feel much safer in a concealed-carry state because you never know who's packing so it tends to keep people more honest.
In Chicago the ony ones who carry are cops and criminals. The criminals outnumber the cops by a large margin.

 

[ZackDaniels]

But what if those rural folks don't want to "herded" into urban areas so they can be "taken care of" by the goverments "good will".

Then they stay. The goal is to make them want to move with fancy things like plumbing, hospitals, resources, and education. Instead of the far more costly and difficult to maintain thing of bringing plumbing and hospitals to them. Nothing about this is enforceable, it's just an outline and information for those wanting it. The US has no need for it and it's not an example of what it's written for.

Zack, its already happening here. Santa Cruz ca, Austin tx. If they can get people on board in Texas, do you think Chicago is immune to it? The mayor is reducing traffic lanes right now to make "bicycle only" lanes. Better start searching eBay to see if they sell a pedal ( as in bicycle pedal) kit for your max.

Cities get more and more dense as time goes on. The Chicago Spire that had the foundation dug out and was actively being developed would have had it's own zip code, and tripled traffic on already congested roads. Bike lanes and carpooling incentives are a solution that doesn't involve knocking out existing infrastructure and rebuilding double decker 8 lane highways to solve it. So are relocation and tax incentives. Finding affordable ways that don't result in decades of road construction is not repressing anybody's rights. Unlike the 8 lane highway which would require eminent domain and removing people from their existing homes and property. As a biker I highly encourage this, because I hope it goes the way of California and lane splitting becomes legal everywhere.

I think it was London that got as drastic as implementing a $10 toll in and out of the city. They figured it would either encourage increased public transit or pay to really fix the problem. Sitting in traffic because there's no easy solution doesn't = some international conspiracy to shit on your rights. Speaking of which driving isn't among them...

It doesn't have dick to do with the UN. But I guess some schmucky pundit wrote a book on this recently and is trying to use fear and bullcrap to drive sales or something, because all of a sudden I'm hearing the horrors of this nonsense everywhere.

I work in shitcago but live on 12 acres 80 miles out of the city. Used to think I had a long drive. Now I wonder if I am far enough. Sure we have crime in the rural areas, but nothing that even comes close to what happens in the city. I feel much safer in a concealed-carry state because you never know who's packing so it tends to keep people more honest.
In Chicago the ony ones who carry are cops and criminals. The criminals outnumber the cops by a large margin.

It's hardly that simple. How's that working out in Gary?

 

[jethrobolas]

Ahh, gary. A beautiful and diverse community. I doubt that many of the people packing have ccw. Really wouldn't want to walk around there too much, but that's just me. I would feel better about doing it with a piece. Just like I would having to walk around some of the areas that I work in.
I can see that you have no problem with agenda 21. I guess it's not that disturbing to think about losing your land when you can mow your yard (if you even have one) in 5 minutes with a weed wacker.
Lane splitting is not going to be legalized, I'm guessing you were joking about that.
From what I have read, the idea behind the agenda is eventually a single global government, to make huge areas off limits to humans, and to have to get permission to do something like going for a ride just for the sake of riding. Permission that would not be granted because it wouldn't be in the best intrest of the envrionment, ride your bicycle instead.



Edit......
Zack... I hope you are right about this not being intended for or applied to the US. I have trouble believing this will fly in america. Just something that I read about in another forum and I thought it may spark some discussion here. I am not trying to put anyone down here.

 

[ouchez]

Every one must understand that good Ol Uncle Sam in Washington is your blood enemy now.

Next time you look at the flag and get all teary eyed and pledge allegiance you best think twice.

Protect the Constitution and the Bill Of Rights,,Washington Pols are the Devil, 90% anyway.

O

O

 

[SpecOps13]

Every one must understand that good Ol Uncle Sam in Washington is your blood enemy now.


Protect the Constitution and the Bill Of Rights,,Washington Pols are the Devil, 90% anyway.

O

O

Our entire Political System is in the Crapper, only a few working in it are still "For The People".
They're more interested in taking care of themselves and Campaign Contributors and their
own adgenda.

Every day we lose more freedoms and money (Buying Power), this has been going on for decades.

Someday, Our constitution and Bill of Rights will simply GO Away. Does anyone really know how many
Absolutely Ignorant Laws have been added to erode our freedom in just the past 40 years????
My guess would be Billions, Federal, State and Local.

Best thing that could happen to America, the World and this Planet is for all the power to go OFF FOREVER...
We'd reform Governments and some may actually be good for the people. And, Overpopulation
would cease to be a problem... Excess populations would simply die off.

Here we go again......... Does Agenda 21 seem similar to Europe in the late early and mid 1900's?:confused2::ummm:


PS: Don't even talk to me about Gun Control, Guns don't do the Killing. Make this a planet of Good People
and I'll give up my Guns. Some of my guns are in case I have to kill Bad People with my guns. Hell, I can hunt
with a Knife or a Bow.

 

[Redbone]

I will leave the larger population area to the voters that live there, living in tight quarters is not for me. I enjoy having deer/ bear/ wolves/ coyotes and all manner of wild creatures running though my neighborhood. I can hunt game within 1/2 mile of my house, carry my rifle or shot gun in season on my daily travels as you never know when dinner may show itself. I may have to "put up with" less services that the densely populated areas have to use but it is a fair price to pay to not have to fight my way into line (on the freeway or at a rail station) just to get to work.
The idea that Agenda 21 or however it's packaged is affecting Americans.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=OzoN0IQsTAE
The US federal goverment has embraced Agenda 21 and but are rolling it out rebranding it for their PR programs to train the uninitiated. These are run through local city/ county goverments with training and guidence from ICLEI facilitators.
ICLEI

One of the ICLEL partners:
http://www.uclg.org/en/issues/united-nations-advocacy