blaxmax
Well-Known Member
My guess gw is that are going to be to low just by the looks of the photo.
Fuel from needle jet at idle? WTH????
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caseyjones955
Well-Known Member
That looks obscenely rich, I know it's not exactly a vmax carb but aside from being a 34 isnt it essentially the same thing?
This is what I used to set mine and its working brilliantly. Although its for a vmax I hope it can shed some light. http://www.factorypro.com/Prod_Pages/prody11.html
edit: mine looked just like the before and after pics on this link and that little bit of adjustment made a difference I could feel. Your float looks slightly more rich than mine did before I set them to match the after pic using a caliper. I read that these carbs are the same other than 34 vs 35 barrel dia. I really want to help and not further complicate things so if the floats are handled differently between the two models please disregard.
This is what I used to set mine and its working brilliantly. Although its for a vmax I hope it can shed some light. http://www.factorypro.com/Prod_Pages/prody11.html
edit: mine looked just like the before and after pics on this link and that little bit of adjustment made a difference I could feel. Your float looks slightly more rich than mine did before I set them to match the after pic using a caliper. I read that these carbs are the same other than 34 vs 35 barrel dia. I really want to help and not further complicate things so if the floats are handled differently between the two models please disregard.
Traumahawk
Well-Known Member
It will be interesting to see what happens.
blaxmax
Well-Known Member
The manual for the Vmax show to equal that cresent by eyeball. But they are not Vmax are they.
caseyjones955
Well-Known Member
Being used over vmax heads and cams and in the absence of a working solution so far I had hoped that it might be useful. I'm only trying to help the man but my rational is flawed then I digress.
blaxmax
Well-Known Member
It is good info Casey and helped me also so it is appreciated.
I thank you - hopefully we will find a solution.
great white
Well-Known Member
Ok.
Carbs back in. Bike running.
16mm wet level.
No fuel shooting out around needles like before.
Bike needs choke to start but comes off it in short order. Seems normal compared to how my other bikes warm up (20 c here right now)
Synch is much more stable and more easily matched than it was before.
Mixture screws 2.5 out as a baseline. I reeeeally need to get myself a used two gas exhaust analyzer, been needing one for many years. Would take the guesswork right out of idle mixture adjustments. No more "pretty close" with twiddling screws in and out. just fire it up, set the co2 and hc and forget it. 4 has would be nice, but that kind of money doesn't grow on trees.
There is no carb spitting or exhaust poppingevisent so far at the 2.5 turns.
Seems good (knock on wood) but it's fooled me before.
Cautiously optimistic but too late (and raining) to do a test drive tonight. Morning will tell the tale.
It better fall in line soon, I've got a 5 hour memorial ride to do in July for 3 of my fallen comrades (one we came up together, the other I trained and the last was a good friend). I will not miss it even if I have to destroy my back and wrist riding the FJ.....
Carbs back in. Bike running.
16mm wet level.
No fuel shooting out around needles like before.
Bike needs choke to start but comes off it in short order. Seems normal compared to how my other bikes warm up (20 c here right now)
Synch is much more stable and more easily matched than it was before.
Mixture screws 2.5 out as a baseline. I reeeeally need to get myself a used two gas exhaust analyzer, been needing one for many years. Would take the guesswork right out of idle mixture adjustments. No more "pretty close" with twiddling screws in and out. just fire it up, set the co2 and hc and forget it. 4 has would be nice, but that kind of money doesn't grow on trees.
There is no carb spitting or exhaust poppingevisent so far at the 2.5 turns.
Seems good (knock on wood) but it's fooled me before.
Cautiously optimistic but too late (and raining) to do a test drive tonight. Morning will tell the tale.
It better fall in line soon, I've got a 5 hour memorial ride to do in July for 3 of my fallen comrades (one we came up together, the other I trained and the last was a good friend). I will not miss it even if I have to destroy my back and wrist riding the FJ.....
great white
Well-Known Member
No worries, it's all good.
But you can't argue with the wet float heights being 16mm even with they way they currently look inside.
Wet height is what matters, that why the manual gives wet and not dry.
Fingers crossed....
blaxmax
Well-Known Member
Good luck.
Traumahawk
Well-Known Member
Thank you for the experimenting that youve done. At some point in time, another question like this will come along....and the info that youve gathered will help someone else.
great white
Well-Known Member
back together and ready for the morning test ride:
midnight here now, time for bed!
:blink000:
midnight here now, time for bed!
:blink000:
caseyjones955
Well-Known Member
Wow, that is a damn handsome bike!!
I really hope it works properly and you get to use it on your ride, looks like a perfect machine for it. I'll be anxiously waiting for the results. Keeping it all documented in the post will no doubt help others in the future.
I really hope it works properly and you get to use it on your ride, looks like a perfect machine for it. I'll be anxiously waiting for the results. Keeping it all documented in the post will no doubt help others in the future.
DMAN999
Well-Known Member
great white
Well-Known Member
Yes sir, Gary has given me a little help on a couple things. The ignitech program and hooking up the vboost to it being most notable.
While his bike is nice, I went a couple different routes than he did.
Gary's bike is a screaming yellow zonker, I wanted more of a sleeper.
His started out looking very similar to how mine looks (even color), but he stayed with the 83-84/5 pattern (albeit heavily tweaked) where I blended the better parts of the 86-93 parts into mine. Or at least the parts I wanted (ie: bigger luggage, electrics, etc).
He went with VMax rims, where I'm building 17" rims to run radials.
He opened the body work to showcase the engine, I actually added bodywork and the "fins" peeking out is enough for me.
His might dyno out with more hp than mine (ie: 1300 vs 1200, 35mm carbs vs 34mm, etc).
His probably carries a little less weight than mine since his has fewer compromises for touring while mine is primarily intended for touring/daily riding.
His is a bit more tilted towards 1/4 mile ability, mine more to handling. i'm an old road racer from waaay back. It's never going to handle like a 250 two stroke, but I want it to at least acquit itself well in the corners for what it is.
Etc, etc.....
Not saying one is 'better" than the other, just different strokes for different folks is all. Variety is what makes the world interesting.
Morley has also built one for a customer. He's got some pics on his Facebook page.
I pretty much went with an all Yamaha parts mix as I wanted it to look like something Yamaha could have built had they wanted too. I wanted it to work as oem would. Goes back to that "sleeper" theme I was going for. Easier to find parts on a breakdown too. I'm considering ordering a spare ignitech controller to chuck on the shelf as that's pretty much the only "one-off" aftermarket part on the bike. It's a necessary evil though as it ties so much of the bits together and makes it all operate as an oem install would wotk.
The occasional VMax engined venture pops up from time to time on the interweb, but they're usually fairly cobbled together examples where someone has just dropped a spare VMax engine in a Venture and has not bothered with vboost or its run by a cable or something similar if it is there.
There's also various guys who will drop VMax cams in a Venture or other VMax bits like a vboost manifold on an otherwise stock Venture.
Then there's the guys who paint a Venture engine black and drill holes in the pipes and proudly proclaim they have a VMax powered Venture....:icon_rolleyes:
I know there one guy out there hiding in the shadows with a full on PCW 1500 build in the works for a Venture. That should be interesting once done........
great white
Well-Known Member
Thanks, compliments are always appreciated.
Most people walk on by, but I get the occasional double take/odd look from the initiated that notice the cylinder fins peeking out or hear the vboost solenoid run its test on startup....:whistlin:
Will be bitchin' once sorted, its just the sorting that's being a bitch...
great white
Well-Known Member
just took bike for a burn and 100% improvement!
its still off a touch though.
tiny bit of lean chug (barely noticable) in 2nd and third gear with throttle from 1500 rpm and a couple small pops in the exhaust at steady cruise.
but thats all stuff that should be able to be dealt with through the mixture screws. once it cools I'll pull the plugs and have a looky see. man, i really need an analyzer.....
vboost doesnt hit like a two stroke like when it was pig rich, but you can definitely tell when it open up as the scenery goes into serious fast forawrd mode at approx 5500rpm. the transition is pretty smooth, not harsh or hitting hard in any way. just an instant perception of the engine waking up and "ok, pay attention: here we go!"
I think I'm over the major hurdles, just need to dial it in now.
The cruise control is even working better now that its not dealing with a lean miss issue.
too early to tell, but looks like mpg might be turnig around too. I only got 49 kms on the first half tank. I just bumped it up to 75 kms this moring and the gauge did't move a lick. fingers crossed on that one as only time will tell any gains.
its still off a touch though.
tiny bit of lean chug (barely noticable) in 2nd and third gear with throttle from 1500 rpm and a couple small pops in the exhaust at steady cruise.
but thats all stuff that should be able to be dealt with through the mixture screws. once it cools I'll pull the plugs and have a looky see. man, i really need an analyzer.....
vboost doesnt hit like a two stroke like when it was pig rich, but you can definitely tell when it open up as the scenery goes into serious fast forawrd mode at approx 5500rpm. the transition is pretty smooth, not harsh or hitting hard in any way. just an instant perception of the engine waking up and "ok, pay attention: here we go!"
I think I'm over the major hurdles, just need to dial it in now.
The cruise control is even working better now that its not dealing with a lean miss issue.
too early to tell, but looks like mpg might be turnig around too. I only got 49 kms on the first half tank. I just bumped it up to 75 kms this moring and the gauge did't move a lick. fingers crossed on that one as only time will tell any gains.
Traumahawk
Well-Known Member
COOL:thumbs up:
Thank you for teaching me something. I had no idea that this combination would be so sensitive to float height. I will definitely put this in the mental Rolodex for the future.
But, it does show like Dmann and I were talking about last night, float height is VERY important, and is usually over looked.
Thank you for teaching me something. I had no idea that this combination would be so sensitive to float height. I will definitely put this in the mental Rolodex for the future.
But, it does show like Dmann and I were talking about last night, float height is VERY important, and is usually over looked.
great white
Well-Known Member
I think my issues were driven by a few factors.
The oem venture fuel level (14mm) was too high to work right with the vmax bits (ie: drawing fuel around the needles at idle).
The carb holders were in the process of breaking down and had me chasing my tail on and off. Testing good on a leak check with the engine running and then a carb removal later; leaking. Then back to sealing on the next carb on/off process. Probably why the cycling between rich and lean indications on the plugs had me spining
The 17mm fuel level being too lean to carburate properly. Carb holder issues just compounding that issue.
Dry levels and casting marks meaning nothing with my particular model carbs. Likely down to the needle and seat differences as the 83-85 venture carbs use a different needle from 86-93 ventures and the vmax bikes. Or maybe the casting are just a bit different.
I Have no idea why the wet levels were apparently moving on thier own. Doesn't do it now and I'm not labout to look a gift horse in the mouth.
My wet levels ended up between 15.5-16 mm to get it to this point. No fuel from needles, but enough fuel to carburate at least close to properly. Pretty close to oem vmax spec of 16mm and within the given tolerance of +/- 1mm.
Id say its likely no one will run into this type of problem unless they come to my exact combination of parts and resulting set of issues.
Its not over yet, but im pretty sure there's light at the end of the tunnel.
I just hope its not the train.....:rofl_200:
The oem venture fuel level (14mm) was too high to work right with the vmax bits (ie: drawing fuel around the needles at idle).
The carb holders were in the process of breaking down and had me chasing my tail on and off. Testing good on a leak check with the engine running and then a carb removal later; leaking. Then back to sealing on the next carb on/off process. Probably why the cycling between rich and lean indications on the plugs had me spining
The 17mm fuel level being too lean to carburate properly. Carb holder issues just compounding that issue.
Dry levels and casting marks meaning nothing with my particular model carbs. Likely down to the needle and seat differences as the 83-85 venture carbs use a different needle from 86-93 ventures and the vmax bikes. Or maybe the casting are just a bit different.
I Have no idea why the wet levels were apparently moving on thier own. Doesn't do it now and I'm not labout to look a gift horse in the mouth.
My wet levels ended up between 15.5-16 mm to get it to this point. No fuel from needles, but enough fuel to carburate at least close to properly. Pretty close to oem vmax spec of 16mm and within the given tolerance of +/- 1mm.
Id say its likely no one will run into this type of problem unless they come to my exact combination of parts and resulting set of issues.
Its not over yet, but im pretty sure there's light at the end of the tunnel.
I just hope its not the train.....:rofl_200:
caseyjones955
Well-Known Member
Yes sir, Gary has given me a little help on a couple things. The ignitech program and hooking up the vboost to it being most notable.
While his bike is nice, I went a couple different routes than he did.
Gary's bike is a screaming yellow zonker, I wanted more of a sleeper.
His started out looking very similar to how mine looks (even color), but he stayed with the 83-84/5 pattern (albeit heavily tweaked) where I blended the better parts of the 86-93 parts into mine. Or at least the parts I wanted (ie: bigger luggage, electrics, etc).
He went with VMax rims, where I'm building 17" rims to run radials.
He opened the body work to showcase the engine, I actually added bodywork and the "fins" peeking out is enough for me.
His might dyno out with more hp than mine (ie: 1300 vs 1200, 35mm carbs vs 34mm, etc).
His probably carries a little less weight than mine since his has fewer compromises for touring while mine is primarily intended for touring/daily riding.
His is a bit more tilted towards 1/4 mile ability, mine more to handling. i'm an old road racer from waaay back. It's never going to handle like a 250 two stroke, but I want it to at least acquit itself well in the corners for what it is.
Etc, etc.....
Not saying one is 'better" than the other, just different strokes for different folks is all. Variety is what makes the world interesting.
Morley has also built one for a customer. He's got some pics on his Facebook page.
I pretty much went with an all Yamaha parts mix as I wanted it to look like something Yamaha could have built had they wanted too. I wanted it to work as oem would. Goes back to that "sleeper" theme I was going for. Easier to find parts on a breakdown too. I'm considering ordering a spare ignitech controller to chuck on the shelf as that's pretty much the only "one-off" aftermarket part on the bike. It's a necessary evil though as it ties so much of the bits together and makes it all operate as an oem install would wotk.
The occasional VMax engined venture pops up from time to time on the interweb, but they're usually fairly cobbled together examples where someone has just dropped a spare VMax engine in a Venture and has not bothered with vboost or its run by a cable or something similar if it is there.
There's also various guys who will drop VMax cams in a Venture or other VMax bits like a vboost manifold on an otherwise stock Venture.
Then there's the guys who paint a Venture engine black and drill holes in the pipes and proudly proclaim they have a VMax powered Venture....:icon_rolleyes:
I know there one guy out there hiding in the shadows with a full on PCW 1500 build in the works for a Venture. That should be interesting once done........
I love that wicked yellow Venture but I'm planning on doing something close to what you have done. I've been looking for a decent 1300 for awhile now and have been finding some priced right within a days drive. Figure I'll see if I can get one in the fall and probably a doner Vmax for all the parts. However it goes I want to end up with a fully functional, full bodied Venture with all the goodies it rolled off the showroom floor with, that just happens to have a bit of extra stomp. It feels like I'm almost done with my Vmax so I should have time and space. I would like to open it up the way the Vmax is for that extra rush but not finding any exhaust options or info on modifying Vmax aftermarket exhaust to work. More research to do yet and maybe poke around on a Venture forum. I would not be opposed to buying one already properly converted.
I'm really glad you traced all your steps here and I'm glad its looking up again. The lessons I'll take from this are not only from the problems and solutions you documented but also what your final working setup ends up being. Once again I hope you hit it on the head this time.
Yes, your documentation on this has been excellent. I get pretty crappy fuel mileage too. I had the airbox off and saw quite a lot of fuel misting from the needles when I would blip the throttle. I was wondering about the float level being off...
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