Spark everywhere

[jfeagins]

Hello everyone. I am new to this forum, but have happily owned my '85 red max since they first hit the street back in March of '85. Proud year that was!

I've come in search of answers to a problem that has plagued my Max this whole year and is getting worse. Max starts fine, idles fine, has an occasional burp back through the carbs if taking off too soon after starting, but overall, seems ok UNTIL it reaches regular running temp. After about the time the fan kicks on in traffic, Max begins missing on various cylinders. It has progressed into quite a problem keeping the bike running. It will open up and run fine out on the highway, but has missing problems at city speeds under 2000 rpms. It looks like a fireworks display between the frame and valve covers after dark when this is happening.

I have replaced the spark plugs with OEM. I have replaced all the plug wires and plug caps with OEM earlier this spring also. I have checked various wiring connections for obvious corrosion, etc. and haven't found anything. Nothing seems to have helped. The warmer the summer, the worse Max runs after warmup.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

 

[-Lee-]

Hello everyone. I am new to this forum, but have happily owned my '85 red max since they first hit the street back in March of '85. Proud year that was!

I've come in search of answers to a problem that has plagued my Max this whole year and is getting worse. Max starts fine, idles fine, has an occasional burp back through the carbs if taking off too soon after starting, but overall, seems ok UNTIL it reaches regular running temp. After about the time the fan kicks on in traffic, Max begins missing on various cylinders. It has progressed into quite a problem keeping the bike running. It will open up and run fine out on the highway, but has missing problems at city speeds under 2000 rpms. It looks like a fireworks display between the frame and valve covers after dark when this is happening.

I have replaced the spark plugs with OEM. I have replaced all the plug wires and plug caps with OEM earlier this spring also. I have checked various wiring connections for obvious corrosion, etc. and haven't found anything. Nothing seems to have helped. The warmer the summer, the worse Max runs after warmup.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Have you checked to see that your coils don't have HUGE cracks in them?

 

[jfeagins]

Yes. I did look over the coils. I didn't see anything abnormal there. I even cut some 3/8" gas line and slit it to wrap around the right left rear wire for additional insulation. This is the wire that is most apt to jump fire. The spark still finds a different place to jump to the valve cover. It's as if the coils have way too much voltage for the wires, caps and/or plugs to handle. I know that shouldn't be possible though. I even cleaned the new wires carefully to remove any oils or dirt that might cause tracking.

Is there any special indicator or place I should inspect on the coils to find any such cracks? And I would think that the spark would jump from a point beginning much closer to the coils if they were to blame? I did add just a touch of silicone to the rubber O-rings around the coil - to - plug wire connectors. Nothing seems to help.

This has been a real head scratcher. Maybe the black box? Or the pickup assembly?

 

[Lew L]

I know this may sound funny but--------- Are all the ground connections to the frame in good condition???? They do corrode and cause electrical gremilins.
Good luck,
Lew

 

[Buster Hymen]

Yes. I did look over the coils. I didn't see anything abnormal there. I even cut some 3/8" gas line and slit it to wrap around the right left rear wire for additional insulation. This is the wire that is most apt to jump fire. The spark still finds a different place to jump to the valve cover. It's as if the coils have way too much voltage for the wires, caps and/or plugs to handle. I know that shouldn't be possible though. I even cleaned the new wires carefully to remove any oils or dirt that might cause tracking.

Is there any special indicator or place I should inspect on the coils to find any such cracks? And I would think that the spark would jump from a point beginning much closer to the coils if they were to blame? I did add just a touch of silicone to the rubber O-rings around the coil - to - plug wire connectors. Nothing seems to help.

This has been a real head scratcher. Maybe the black box? Or the pickup assembly?

Can you actually see arc to the valve cover? I know you said you changed the plug wires, but that is the sign of bad plug wires. I f you think it may be a coil issue, trying switching the coils around to see if the problem follows it.

 

[jfeagins]

Can you actually see arc to the valve cover? I know you said you changed the plug wires, but that is the sign of bad plug wires. I f you think it may be a coil issue, trying switching the coils around to see if the problem follows it.

Yes, I can actually see spark jump to the valve covers from the brand new plug wires. Both rear cylinders seem to suffer the most. Both actually jump fire, randomly it would seem. When both jump in succession, the bike will nearly die at idle unless I am holding the throttle up around 1500rpm.

I will spend more time with the coils this coming weekend to see if I've overlooked something there.

Thanks.

 

[jfeagins]

I know this may sound funny but--------- Are all the ground connections to the frame in good condition???? They do corrode and cause electrical gremilins.
Good luck,
Lew

Yes. I have looked for bad ground connections here and there. I may have overlooked one though. I know the batt is fine. I know the other end of the batt neg is fine - I scratched it clean and retorqued it just to be sure way back when I began battling this problem. I inspected all the coil multi-wire connectors. They look healthy. I didn't really ohm them for continuity though.

Do you know of any other connections I might look at closer?

 

[mikemax04]

Yes. I have looked for bad ground connections here and there. I may have overlooked one though. I know the batt is fine. I know the other end of the batt neg is fine - I scratched it clean and retorqued it just to be sure way back when I began battling this problem. I inspected all the coil multi-wire connectors. They look healthy. I didn't really ohm them for continuity though.

Do you know of any other connections I might look at closer?

Electricity, like water, will follow the path of least resistance. Either your wires are not making good contact with the plugs or the plugs are not grounding out correctly for some reason. Also NEVER use cheap plug wires, they can rob you of a lot of hp. Check the continuity of your plug caps but mostly the plug wire connections. Are you positive the caps are on the plugs as far as they will go? Sure sounds like the problem is in that area. Let us know if you find anything.

 

[jfeagins]

I have replaced the caps with new OEM caps. I checked back when and believe they have around 6 ohms each (not sure of exact readings - its been a while), but they were ALL four basically the same out of the box. I've checked wire connections til I have sweat running into my eyes and cannot find any connection that doesn't appear good. I will pull the cap/wire combo's off tomorrow and check for resistance while they are together to be sure though. Thanks for the tips.

 

[Buster Hymen]

Yes, I can actually see spark jump to the valve covers from the brand new plug wires. Both rear cylinders seem to suffer the most. Both actually jump fire, randomly it would seem. When both jump in succession, the bike will nearly die at idle unless I am holding the throttle up around 1500rpm.

I will spend more time with the coils this coming weekend to see if I've overlooked something there.

Thanks.

Wow that is bizarre! Only time I have seen that is with either worn out plug wires or cracked coils. Now you say this happens when it is warmed up, I wonder if there is a crack in the coil(s) that can't be seen when it is cold but appears when it is warm? :a014: I have seen electronics break down and stop working when under load, although they test OK on the bench, but I don't think it applies in this case... but who knows!

 

[jfeagins]

Ok everyone, I feel a little more humble today than this time yesterday. In fact, I feel downright dumb. After all this time scratching my head, examining and re-examining plugs, wires, coils, connectors and replacing all the above with new OEM. I have finally seen the light. After viewing ALL the tips here on this forum and spending more time over this weekend with the Max, here is the answer: When I put the new wires on, I didn't seem to get the wire shoved far enough into the coil on the right, rear cylinder. I disassembled (again) and looking for loose or burned ends, I saw there was no markings on this wire that would indicate it had been punctured by the internal pin/contactor of the coil. I also saw the tiniest of nicks piercing the outer rubber of the wire close to where the wire went into the coil, so I replaced it completely.

This time I made sure ALL four wires were installed deeply into the coils and went for a long......luxurious, miss free, ride. NO MORE MISS.!! Suddenly, it is fun to cruise again.

I can't believe I couldn't recognize it before.

Thanks so much ALL for the pointers on where to re-look for troubles.

Oh, and by the way, I think I read somewhere in these forums -and I agree completely - the best way to slow down while cruising with a Max is to teach your wife to ride and buy her a slower motorcycle. But a short blast up to around 125mph is still possible once in a while.

Thanks!

 

[Buster Hymen]

Ok everyone, I feel a little more humble today than this time yesterday. In fact, I feel downright dumb. After all this time scratching my head, examining and re-examining plugs, wires, coils, connectors and replacing all the above with new OEM. I have finally seen the light. After viewing ALL the tips here on this forum and spending more time over this weekend with the Max, here is the answer: When I put the new wires on, I didn't seem to get the wire shoved far enough into the coil on the right, rear cylinder. I disassembled (again) and looking for loose or burned ends, I saw there was no markings on this wire that would indicate it had been punctured by the internal pin/contactor of the coil. I also saw the tiniest of nicks piercing the outer rubber of the wire close to where the wire went into the coil, so I replaced it completely.

This time I made sure ALL four wires were installed deeply into the coils and went for a long......luxurious, miss free, ride. NO MORE MISS.!! Suddenly, it is fun to cruise again.

I can't believe I couldn't recognize it before.

Thanks so much ALL for the pointers on where to re-look for troubles.

Oh, and by the way, I think I read somewhere in these forums -and I agree completely - the best way to slow down while cruising with a Max is to teach your wife to ride and buy her a slower motorcycle. But a short blast up to around 125mph is still possible once in a while.

Thanks!

Hey, that's great to hear!arty: Don't feel dumb though, it's easy to overlook something when there is so many things to check. The main thing is your VMax is running properly now... so go out and ride!! :rocket bike: