naughtyG
Well-Known Member
Yea I want one of those test tubes too. Then go sue gas stations and petrol companies when I find out most of the E10 has way more than 10% alcohol in it!!
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richwrench
Well-Known Member
Just bought this - http://www.fueltestkit.com/
I'll post how it works - I'm sure it's good. I can't believe I never Googled this before. Soon, a new tool to play with. :clapping:
I'll post how it works - I'm sure it's good. I can't believe I never Googled this before. Soon, a new tool to play with. :clapping:
naughtyG
Well-Known Member
Gleno, do you guys get E10 fuel in Oz? I didn't notice it while I was over there..
I did COPs too but still need choke to start when cold, thanks to E10 I guess.
Rich, great stuff! I can't wait to see what results you get!
And, my bike's been stored since late November with a full tank of E10 gas. Guess what's the first thing I'm gonna do...
..which brings me to: does anyone have a clever way to drain all fuel from the tank without making a huge mess?
I did COPs too but still need choke to start when cold, thanks to E10 I guess.
Rich, great stuff! I can't wait to see what results you get!
And, my bike's been stored since late November with a full tank of E10 gas. Guess what's the first thing I'm gonna do...
..which brings me to: does anyone have a clever way to drain all fuel from the tank without making a huge mess?
nd4topspd
Well-Known Member
Wow definately going to drain my tank now after watching those vids
Then it is the hunt for non ethanol fuel in town. Being out here in farmville good luck lol
Then it is the hunt for non ethanol fuel in town. Being out here in farmville good luck lol
98Redlne
Well-Known Member
E10......one more reason to use a little SeaFoam every fill-up.
naughtyG
Well-Known Member
Although I hear Seafoam contains plenty of alcohol too.. Food for thought?
dannymax
Well-Known Member
I read that somewhere too..hell, it even smells like alcohol. I've used BG Supercharge II in place of Seafoam, it seems to work well but is pricey.
98Redlne
Well-Known Member
True....but it is also supposed to prevent phase seperation of the E10 gas. Possibly a stabilized formula? I don't know, but it seems that the effects of running Sea Foam are much better than the effects of running E10 fuel.
richwrench
Well-Known Member
Here's the MSDS for Seafoam - http://www.montanajacks.com/msds/seafoam-msds.pdf
Up to 20 % isopropyl alcohol. I don't know if that's better or worse than ethanol. Any chemists here ?
Up to 20 % isopropyl alcohol. I don't know if that's better or worse than ethanol. Any chemists here ?
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naughtyG
Well-Known Member
Well, I have a full tank of E10 that has a few ounces of Seafoam in it that's been sitting outside but inside a 'capsule cover' since November '09.
I wish I could get inside without disturbing it to find out if any water separation did take place..
I wish I could get inside without disturbing it to find out if any water separation did take place..
dannymax
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure of the internal baffling of our tanks, if any, but you might be able to slide a thin stick (like a long popsicle stick), with 1" or so of water detection paste on the end, in the filler tube. That would tell you if there is any water in the bottom.
naughtyG
Well-Known Member
Where'd you get that water detection paste Dan-o? There's no baffling in our tanks, you can drop from the filler right to the bottom.
Water is heavier than gas, right? By opening the drain bolt wouldn't the water (if any) come out first then?
Water is heavier than gas, right? By opening the drain bolt wouldn't the water (if any) come out first then?
dannymax
Well-Known Member
Yes, the water will settle to the bottom of the tank, on the lowest side if the bike it leaning at all.
The water would come out the drain bolt hole first if that is the lowest part of the tank.
If you know any guys at the local gas station, mini mart or any of the places that dispense gasoline ask them for a little dob of water paste, they shouldn't have any problem with it.
Better yet, just get a cheap little syphon pump from Wal-Mart and pull a little fuel off the bottom into a glass jar and see if any water settles out. That's prolly the best way cause if there's water you want to remove it anyway....helps prevent rust from forming.
4gasem
Well-Known Member
AWESOME info!
I'm thinking some of this would be a good thing to have...
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|311|302335|531412&id=725700
Also from Starbrites Startron info:
E-10 Ethanol Fuel Problems
STAR BRITE STAR TRON SOLVES FUEL PROBLEMS CAUSED BY NEW FORMULATED E-10 ETHANOL ENHANCED GASOLINE
The gasoline we buy for our boats and cars is in the process of a major reformulation. Ethanol, an alcohol derived primarily from corn, is both a domestically produced, and renewable fuel. E-10 (10% ethanol) has become a critical component of our fuel infrastructure, but it requires better housekeeping, especially in the boating industry. Ethanol is being phased into the fuel supply across the country.
The problem is all alcohol’s are hygroscopic. That means it likes water, and it attracts and couples with moisture in the air, resulting in greater amounts of water collecting in the fuel tank. Since water is heavier than gasoline, the water and ethanol mix settles to the bottom. This is referred to as “phase separation”, and eventually the water/ethanol phase is drawn into the fuel delivery system. If there is no water separator in the line, the water goes into the injector/carburetor and the engine does not run properly. In extreme cases, the engine will stop running. For automobiles, this is not a common problem in that an entire tank of fuel will most likely be used up within one week, well before a water/ethanol build up takes place. Also, automobiles have smaller gas tanks, leaving less air space for condensation to accumulate. Boats usually do not use up their fuel for many weeks, if not months, and their large gas tanks, when left low in fuel, readily form condensation. This presents a problem for most boaters.
An additional problem boaters will face is loss of octane, which is critical to an engine's performance. Ethanol is over 100+ octane, and provides the fuel with much of its octane rating. Once water reaches about a .5% level, it will phase separate. With the ethanol drawn to the bottom along with the water, the fuel will lose octane, and this can cause a loss of performance, including pinging and engine knock, which can damage your engine. It also severely worsens fuel economy and power.
There are other problems with E-10 fuel. Ethanol is a powerful solvent and readily breaks up tars and organic sediment found in many marine fuel tanks. The ethanol/water mix also makes a potent stripping agent for old varnish and gum accumulated from years of gasoline sitting in the tank. These organic contaminants, once loosened from tank walls, can plug filters and injectors quickly, disabling your boat’s engine. In cold weather, the water/alcohol phase can also freeze, turning into a syrupy mix that plugs filters.
To assist boaters, Star Brite has introduced Star Tron, a revolutionary fuel additive based on enzyme technology that can prevent these water-related fuel problems. The enzyme package in Star Tron disperses water derived from normal condensation into microscopic clusters, and allows the water to pass
through the fuel system and engine harmlessly, preventing the buildup on the tank bottom that can contribute to poor performance, fuel gelling and corrosion. This de-watering effect prevents potential phase separation. If large amounts of water are already present it will be de-emulsified and drop out of the body of the fuel, improving overall fuel performance. Over a period of time, with fresh gas loads treated with Star Tron, even large accumulations of water will be totally eliminated.
Star Tron can also counter the effects of lost octane, greatly improving the combustion performance of E-10 fuel that has had water contamination. Star Tron can also prevent filter plugging from old gum and varnish. The enzymes help break down the dislodged sludge and other deposits into sub-micron-sized particles that usually pass through the fuel filter and are burned away as part of the combustion process. Tank deposits that would cause gelling are solubilized so that fuel flows uninterrupted through the filters.
Star Brite Star tron is available in 8 fl. oz, 16 fl. oz, 32 fl. oz. and bulk sizes at most marine supply retailers. One fluid ounce of the additive treats 15 gallons of gas. Consumers seeking further information can call Star Brite toll free at 1 800 327-8583.
MORE great links:
http://mystarbrite.com/startron/index.php?option=com_weblinks&catid=24&Itemid=84
http://fueltestkit.com/is_gas_additive_safe_with_e10_list.html
I ordered a 32oz bottle of startron from Amazon for like 27 bucks shipped for free and no tax.
We have a three boats and a wave runner as well as all my bikes which DO NOT have a closed fuel system...
I'll be running this in ALL of them from now on.
Chris
Yes , we have E10 but I don't use it because it just doesn't give me good mileage.
I just run 92 Octane Unleaded Fuel.
Rocky8710
Member
Cold runs great....Hot runs like crap.
I have a 2007 Vmax. The bike is nuts(great) in the morning.....rip and tear all over the place (9-20 degrees celcius ambient air). When the afternoon rolls around hot and humid and the air temp is 25 degrees my bike runs like crap.....coughing and hesitating in any gear. Does anyone happen to know what the heck is going on?:bang head:
I have a 2007 Vmax. The bike is nuts(great) in the morning.....rip and tear all over the place (9-20 degrees celcius ambient air). When the afternoon rolls around hot and humid and the air temp is 25 degrees my bike runs like crap.....coughing and hesitating in any gear. Does anyone happen to know what the heck is going on?:bang head:
Traumahawk
Well-Known Member
Sounds like its a bit rich....Cooler air is denser, so you can cram more into the carburetor. 2nd, The carbs get richer as they get warmer. I would try to readjust the A/F screws.....and see what happens.
wayne z
Well-Known Member
Rocky8710
Member
Thank You very much! The science behind what said sounds dead on. I will try that.
Thanks,
Rocky8710
