2004 VMAX Idle Issues And More

[jespeed]

Hello All,

First post here. Love this website. Finally found a forum with great info and people willing to help. Glad to be a member.

I bought the 04 VMax new and only have 1000 miles on it. I spend my summers (May - Oct) away from home and my bike only gets started once in a while. When I am home the weather is usually cold or wet so my riding time is pretty limited.

Did not have any problems until I got home last October. I always had this sneaking suspicion that not treating the fuel system would bite me and it did. When I got home and tried to start my bike it would start with the choke on but if you even looked at the throttle it would stall. I tried a few times but the same thing would happen even after bike was warmed up. I figured the fuel system was plugged and took it to the dealer for a clean up. I told the mechanic the issues and he agreed about the fuel system.

Well, two weeks and $450.00 later they drop off the bike while I was out of town and tell my wife that they fixed it and test road the bike and it ran great. Feeling excited to ride my bike again I cranked it up and the bike started right up. Let it warm up some and goosed the throttle and the exact same issue happened. The bike would stall at the slightest throttle blip and would not run without the choke. Plus it smelled strange and seemed to be running hotter than normal. Talk about disappointment. I called the dealer and they said they would take of it. They picked up the bike and had it for another week on their dime and brought it back. This time it would start fine and you could blip the throttle and take off the choke completely. However, after any throttle blip the idle speed would hang and might or might not return to 1100 rpm. They stated that this was an issue but did not know what was causing it. They told me to just ride it and it might work itself out. I asked them if I should run some Seafoam through it and they said it would not help and would be a waste of money.

I took their advice and road it as much as the weather would allow. It was annoying to say the least. You would be cruising and then let off the throttle to come to a stop and it felt like the bike had cruise control. The rpm would just hang but if you blipped the throttle enough times it would return to normal until the next stop or clutch pull. I checked the throttle cable free play and made sure the idle adjust screw was backed off. In fact it was backed all the way out. The throttle plate was hitting its min stop when you let go of the throttle with no signs of hanging up.

This past week we finally had some good weather and I went for another ride but the same problem still exists. Did some more troublshooting after reading this board and checked for intake leaks with WD-40 but did not find any. Checked all the boots for tightness and also checked hoses. Did not find anything. I pulled all of the plugs and found 3 that were tan and cylinder #2 was wet and black. It smelled like gas and was not gummy. Cleaned and checked gap. Went for another ride and still had idle problems but the bike has always pulled hard from 4k to redline. Got home and swapped out the wet plug and went for a ride and checked it again. It was wet and starting to blacken.

Decided to check the A/F mixture screws. Did one at a time and each one made a difference in rpm when closed too much or opened too much. Cylinder #2 made no difference even when on its closed seat. Hmmmmmm. Checked for spark and it looked good.

One more test I did was to start the bike from a cold condition and leave my hand on the front two cylinder exhaust pipes. The front right cylinder warmed right up but the front left cylinder stayed cold.

I believe that during idle and low speeds that the left front cylinder is not firing but after a certain rpm that it does fire I am not sure why this is though. I ordered a carb sync tool but will not get that for two weeks.

Could a carb idle circuit problem cause what I am seeing? Hanging idle rpm, wet plug, cold exhaust at idle, but good power from mid to high rpms?

I would appreciate any help or suggestions. I have learned my lesson as far as laying up the fuel system and I am running Seafoam as we speak.

Thanks for you time.

Jim Spence

 

[satariel666]

IMHO ajust the throttle cables. I've had the similar problem and the throttle cables were the issue.

 

[tfisher65]

If the bike pulls hard from 4k up then I would suspect the idle circuit. 4k is where the mains start to kick in.
BTW - welcome to the forum.

 

[[email protected]]

I say your carb needs a better cleaning. Do a search on the forum for "shotgun" and "peashooter". These are the first steps to clean without being very invasive.

If you fail to get the desired results you will need to pull the carbs. Once you pull the carbs you will have to split the linkage in half. Pull the bowls off the carbs, remove floats, remove jet blocks, and clean the hell out of the thing. Most likely won't cost you anything but time and some jet block gaskets.

Look in the carb section for great how to's on tearing into these carbs. The info there makes it an easy job.

 

[06VMAXIMUS]

Jim, Welcome to the forum! In my opinion you should take the bike back and make the dealer correct the problem that you paid $450 for in the first place. That being said, I think you should check your spark on Cyl #2....you stated the plug was wet with fuel and the pipe felt cold. This would lead me to believe you are getting fuel but no spark on that cyl.

 

[tvmax]

I would check the float wet level before you remove them. If that carb float is sticking or set very high it could cause the rich condition. Also chech to see that the setscrew on the choke linkage is there on that carb and the choke is not being held open. Can also be more than 1 thing. Do you have good spark on that plug? Last could have the carb sync out. Could also be more than 1 of these things.
Good Luck
Jim

 

[jespeed]

Thanks for all of the ideals and responses. I had planned on trying the shotgun today. As far as checking the wet float level, can you point me in the right direction for the procedure?

I did do a spark test on that cylinder and it looked like a healthy spark. I wonder if I took it for a ride and got the rpm up between 5 - 6k and then shut the engine off and checked the plugs if they would be any different. Might try that too. That should tell me if that cylinder is firing at higher rpm / power levels.

Again, thanks for your input.

 

[dannymax]

Thanks for all of the ideals and responses. I had planned on trying the shotgun today. As far as checking the wet float level, can you point me in the right direction for the procedure?QUOTE]

This gives you some info on it. http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=9134&highlight=float+level

 

[naughtyG]

Hi Jim and welcome.

Having read the whole thread, I think you do have a sticking float needle and fuel is being dumped at such a rate that the spark plug is too wet to fire.

The easiest way to free a float needle is to tap the carb body in question with a rubber mallet or other soft kind of hammer. However, this may only alleviate the problem and not fix it, as if the float needle is gummed up as I suspect it to be it's most likely to stick again.

Most of us here use SeaFoam to great effect. In fact, the Peashooter is done using SeaFoam, whereas the Shotgun uses carb cleaner spray. Both cleaning methods may help you, and I would definitely run an ounce or two of SeaFoam to a tank or two of gas.

Carb sync out of whack is most often the culprit for non-returning idle and weird throttle feel. Having a syncing tool on the way should take care of that, it's dead easy and only takes 5mns.

I would most definitely return to your stealers and demand your money back, or at least a fully detailed report of exactly what was done to your bike for $450. Just state that all their work amounted to zero improvement and you want your money back. If they won't refund, hopefully you paid with a credit card and can make a claim to your credit card company for having been sold a service 'not fit for its purpose'. We hear this stupid kind of story from useless stealers ALL the time - they simply haven't got a clue how to work on a good ol' carburetted bike anymore.

If all of the above fails, I would double-check your spark plug, spark plug cap, HT lead and coil are all good by swapping them with the adjacent cylinder one at a time and see if the problem follows any of these parts. A common fault is for the HT lead to become loose, corroded or both at either end, and this can be easily fixed by disconnecting, cutting a little off, and reconnecting properly.

Good luck, and let us know how you get on!

 

[[email protected]]

I thought you said spark was good but if it hasn't been verified I would do that before tearing into anything. As G suggested, it may as simple as a loose connection at the coil or boot or some corroded plug wire.

If spark shows good I would be going into the carbs.

 

[jespeed]

Thanks for the welcome and suggestions.

The spark did look good and I will be doing the shotgun today and checking wet float levels. I will also check the spark plug cables with my meter just to see where I stand. I will let you know how it turns out.

I am running Seafoam as we speak and will continue to do so.

Take care all

 

[WarriorR6]

Hi Jim and welcome.

Having read the whole thread, I think you do have a sticking float needle and fuel is being dumped at such a rate that the spark plug is too wet to fire.

The easiest way to free a float needle is to tap the carb body in question with a rubber mallet or other soft kind of hammer. However, this may only alleviate the problem and not fix it, as if the float needle is gummed up as I suspect it to be it's most likely to stick again.

Most of us here use SeaFoam to great effect. In fact, the Peashooter is done using SeaFoam, whereas the Shotgun uses carb cleaner spray. Both cleaning methods may help you, and I would definitely run an ounce or two of SeaFoam to a tank or two of gas.

Carb sync out of whack is most often the culprit for non-returning idle and weird throttle feel. Having a syncing tool on the way should take care of that, it's dead easy and only takes 5mns.

I would most definitely return to your stealers and demand your money back, or at least a fully detailed report of exactly what was done to your bike for $450. Just state that all their work amounted to zero improvement and you want your money back. If they won't refund, hopefully you paid with a credit card and can make a claim to your credit card company for having been sold a service 'not fit for its purpose'. We hear this stupid kind of story from useless stealers ALL the time - they simply haven't got a clue how to work on a good ol' carburetted bike anymore.

If all of the above fails, I would double-check your spark plug, spark plug cap, HT lead and coil are all good by swapping them with the adjacent cylinder one at a time and see if the problem follows any of these parts. A common fault is for the HT lead to become loose, corroded or both at either end, and this can be easily fixed by disconnecting, cutting a little off, and reconnecting properly.

Good luck, and let us know how you get on!

I agree. I had a similiar situation occuring and it looked like I was running on 3 cyl. on the dyno. I cracked open the carb and the float was binding up against the casing. At some point I must have bent the holding pin slightly and it torqued the float again the body. It would move freely the stick and my symptums were similiar at idle.

 

[jespeed]

Did the shotgun yesterday. Also checked all plug wires with multimeter and got 22 - 23 KOhms on all four. Changed all plugs and verified tightness. Changed to new glass fuel filter.

I did find a small amount of sediment in the problem cylinders (#2) carb when I drained the bowl. Did not find anything else abnormal.

Started bike up and it seemed to sound better at idle. Also left my hands on both front cylinder exhaust pipes during warm up and the front right cylinder warmed up right away while the left front took 30 - 60 seconds longer to warm up. Before doing the shotgun the front left cylinder stayed cool to touch for a much longer time. Took bike for a short ride because it was late when I got done and at first it seemed a little weak but got stronger as I went on. The idle hanging issue is much better than it was. There is just a slight hesitation when letting off the throttle and the idle returning to its set rpm.

Today I am going to check the float levels and put new gas in with more seafoam. Going to look at the new plugs and change the oil.

Wanted to thank this board for the great ideals and information. Will keep you posted.


Take care,

Jim Spence

 

[dannymax]

Jim, I like to run BG44K thru once a year, usually in the spring. It's pretty good stuff, does a nice job of cleaning the carbs out. Add 1/3 can for the first 3 tankfulls of gas......some guys use Techron and say it's real good too.

Then put a couple ounces of Seafoam per tankfull as a maintenance thing for the rest of the season.

 

[jespeed]

BG44K? Who sells this? Autozone or someplace? I would like to pick some of this up and try it out.

Thanks,

Jim

 

[4gasem]

BG44K? Who sells this? Autozone or someplace? I would like to pick some of this up and try it out.

Thanks,

Jim

Unfortunately I know of no big box stores that sell it. You can find it online. BG makes GREAT stuff. Seafoam and Techron have NEVER steered me wrong though.

Chris

 

[Nicki66]

Check your carb sync now. That one may be off from the others.

 

[jespeed]

Hey Guys,

I was going to have to wait on the carb sync but I canceled that order and the re-ordered one will be here tomorrow.

I would also like to perform a compression test on all four cylinders just not quite sure on the correct procedure.

Is this the correct way to perform a compression test ?

1) remove all 4 spark plugs and put them back in their spark plug boots
2) ensure all 4 spark plugs are grounded to engine block
3) screw in the compression tester into a cylinders spark plug hole
4) with the kill switch on crank the starter with the throttle wide open for a few engine turnovers
5) record max pressure reached
6) rinse and repeat for the other 3

Does this look correct ?


Thanks for your help.


Take care,

Jim Spence

 

[maleko89]

Hey Guys,

I was going to have to wait on the carb sync but I canceled that order and the re-ordered one will be here tomorrow.

I would also like to perform a compression test on all four cylinders just not quite sure on the correct procedure.

Is this the correct way to perform a compression test ?

1) remove all 4 spark plugs and put them back in their spark plug boots
2) ensure all 4 spark plugs are grounded to engine block
3) screw in the compression tester into a cylinders spark plug hole
4) with the kill switch on crank the starter with the throttle wide open for a few engine turnovers
5) record max pressure reached
6) rinse and repeat for the other 3

Does this look correct ?


Thanks for your help.


Take care,

Jim Spence

Jim, make sure you warm up the engine before doing a compression test.

 

[jespeed]

I will make sure to warm up engine first. Does the rest of the procedure look good?


Thanks,

Jim