2005 Resurrection

[Parminio]

Seems to me that air in the line would prevent the cluch from disengaging (to me, slipping is disengaging).

This is correct.

If you had air in the lines, the moment you put it into gear the bike would stall because it would engage instantly.

I flushed the slave cylinder

That does absolutely nothing. If you don't pull it, clean it and rebuild it you're wasting your time.

I just finished doing mine. There's nothing to it really. About an hour start to finish with no special tools required. I was surprised at how dirty and sticky mine was. My bike I have owned since brand new. It's never spent a single night outdoors, always garage kept and it was pretty nasty.



I would order a rebuild kit and a case gasket for it and pull it. I'm willing to bet it's nasty and just sticking in the cylinder, not fully moving back and forth like it should.

 

[DirtieGirtie]

Thanks, guys. I've rebuilt slave cylinders before, it just confuses me that the hydraulic system is the issue. Piecing together the thoughts y'all posted, for it to be a hydraulic issue it would mean the plunger in the slave cylinder is in the 'pressed' position, but unable to 'relax'.
For that to happen, either:
1. The master cylinder back-flush hole is plugged. But it's not. I completely rebuilt the MC and used Firemedic's reverse bleed method, and never had an issue with fluid flowing back up into the MC.
2. The piston in the slave cylinder had no problem moving forward into the 'pressed' position, but was so gummed up that it would not allow the piston to go back to the 'relaxed' position where the clutch is fully engaged and the lever is completly let out (no hand pressure).

Thinking more about it, it was only a few days before my road test that I was able to ride the bike out of my basement and up-hill through the yard to the garage. The way it felt on the road, it wouldn't have made it up hill if it was as bad as it is now... which supports the idea that it's the slave cylinder not relaxing.

Ok. I ordered new clutch metal shims and friction plates, but because of y'all thinking it's the slave cylinder, I will go after that first.

I'll report back when the slave cylinder is done.

 

[DirtieGirtie]

New slave cylinder is in.
Still slips under hard acceleration.
It is better, but still slips. I'm wondering if the previous owner put oil in her with "friction modifiers"... I'm tempted to replace the oil again, but it won't cure it immediately so I'm just going to replace the clutch friction plates.

To be continued.

 

[gentsvmax]

I bought this bike a few months back and finally have a chance to begin working on her. She's a 2005 with 21k miles, but seems to have been stored outside uncovered for a good portion of her life - so I paid $2k for her.

The seat was torn and had green growth on it, the fork seals have disintegrated, the rear caliper is starting to lock up, the master cylinders all have molasses in them, the tank is badly rusted inside, the paint is faded beyond belief, the chromed scoops and side covers are peeling, and of course it only runs on full choke.

But I think she's beautiful.

Note: I did clean the rear wheel before the pics.

You can do it! And she is beautiful. You'll realize an incomparable satisfaction. You are restoring a bike that was a legend as it rolled off the assembly line.
Look at my 85, it had been parked since 1994.
In the pic both wheels are locked up, frozen in time LOL.
Look close at the seat and spark plug boots, burnt to a crisp by the sun.
Dry rot seat, tires, wires, hoses and rusted in the sheath cables.
A Steal at 500 Bucks!

 

[Fire-medic]

I've paid similar, and have gotten some even cheaper. If it doesn't have a title, I'm not interested.

 

[DirtieGirtie]

Well, I replaced the clutch. Same problem. When I first get on the bike the clutch seems to grab decent. But once it heats up, clutch go bye-bye. After 5 minutes on the road the clutch slips with 25% throttle applied. And it continues to 'grab' only at the last few mm's of lever travel.

My latest theory is that the outer clutch spring (the spring washer) is toast. My guess is that the slave cylinder got gunked up before the bike sat for a few years - that prevented the clutch from fully disengaging (or engaging) and then it sat like that and the spring is no longer as strong as it was.

I'm going to attempt the "double d" clutch mod with one brand new clutch spring and this weaker spring as the second. If that doesn't cure it then I'm going to be at a loss.

Ugh.

 

[Big"A"]

Well, I replaced the clutch. Same problem. When I first get on the bike the clutch seems to grab decent. But once it heats up, clutch go bye-bye. After 5 minutes on the road the clutch slips with 25% throttle applied. And it continues to 'grab' only at the last few mm's of lever travel.

My latest theory is that the outer clutch spring (the spring washer) is toast. My guess is that the slave cylinder got gunked up before the bike sat for a few years - that prevented the clutch from fully disengaging (or engaging) and then it sat like that and the spring is no longer as strong as it was.

I'm going to attempt the "double d" clutch mod with one brand new clutch spring and this weaker spring as the second. If that doesn't cure it then I'm going to be at a loss.

Ugh.

Try the Barnett purple pressure plate. If that doesn't help I'd go too the 6 finger centrifical lock up system. You can run 3 fingers for mild or 6 for full lock up. No more problems. Let me know if you would like to do this and I could get you the address of the guy in FLORIDA that does it

 

[Radioguylogs]

It might be the spooge hole in the MC is plugged.

Did you check this?

I am doubtful your clutch itself could be so bad that it slips at 25% throttle.

 

[DirtieGirtie]

Did you check this?

I am doubtful your clutch itself could be so bad that it slips at 25% throttle.

I rebuilt the master cylinder. I filled the system using the reverse flush method. Then I replaced the slave cylinder with a brand new unit. But I'll do the reverse bleed method again because...

I did the double d mod. It definitely helped, but it still started slipping. This is the extra stuff I took out:
- piano wire
- half friction plate
- inner spring and guide

This is the extra stuff I put in:
- full friction plate
- second outer spring

Slipping was MUCH less, but under 90% throttle I could feel her slipping after she warmed up.

Here my questions that I'm really, REALLY hoping y'all can answer for me:
1. Do brand new Steelie clutch plates need to be sanded before installing?
2. If I flush the hydraulic system using the reverse flush method, isn't that proof that the MC is fine/not plugged/allowing back pressure to release?
3. Did I miss something on the Double D mod?

 

[DirtieGirtie]

I just read deeper into the archives...

https://www.vmaxforum.net/threads/clutch-return-hole.53455/

I would post a link to two other similar threads, but every f*****ng time I go to copy the link, this post gets deleted. Grrrr!!!

Seems like there most likely cause is a blockage in the hydraulic line. I'm going to but a new clutch line and see if I can find a new master cylinder.

To test the theory I'll go for a ride tomorrow and when it starts slipping in going to poop open the bleeder on the slave cylinder. If this theory is correct, I should see a fountain of fluid followed by a working clutch (until pressure builds again).

I'll report back soon.

 

[Radioguylogs]

If you're running DOT3 or DOT4 fluid, you'll want to clean it up ASAP after opening the clutch slave bleeder....before it damages any paint.

Good luck - should be interesting.

 

[Fire-medic]

Since I normally buy used cars, bikes, and trucks, I have had obstructed hydraulic lines in each type of transportation at one time or another. It happens.

 

[Storloc]

Any chance the part I highlighted got put in backwards?

 

[Parminio]

I've paid similar, and have gotten some even cheaper. If it doesn't have a title, I'm not interested.

In Georgia, titles are no longer issued on older vehicles. It doesn't matter if you have one or not. 1986 or older, they won't even issue you a title. If you give them one and ask to transfer it to your name, they won't.

All you need is a bill of sale.

 

[DirtieGirtie]

Rain today prevented me from the trial run. Instead, I took the clutch master cylinder off my other Vmax, the yellow one... Never had an issue with it so I know it's good. It feels competitive different, so I think you guys are right... The master cylinder was f'ed up. I should know for sure tomorrow.

Fingers (and toes) crossed!

 

[Fire-medic]

R.e. backwards placement: I doubt the parts would have fit that way. I think it would be very obvious that they were backwards but some people have a knack for making a mistake and not realizing it.

 

[DirtieGirtie]

Sooooo... I rode to work and home yesterday. No slipping at all.

Thank you so for continuing to push me on the hydraulics side of the equation. I'm my arrogance I discounted the idea that there was something wrong with the master cylinder because I had just rebuilt it. Thinking back, the handle was loose and it felt more sticky than any other MC I've rebuilt, but I assumed it was just a little bent and would loosen up.

So what did my arrogance cost me?
-brand new slave cylinder
-new clutch plates
-double d mod with new clutch spring
-two clutch cover gaskets

I haven't taken the old master cylinder apart yet, so I can't confirm I put something in backwards. And knowing myself, I won't take it apart until I need the new parts inside in y the next one.

Lesson learned: If the most obvious solution is that something you already did is just not right, look there before going deeper!