4 into 1 vs. 4 into 2

[Samfish]

I'm getting a new exhaust system for my 93, which has Jardine slip on's from the previous owner. I'm leaning towards Mark's Performance. Any difference between the 4 into 1 vs. the 4 into 2 besides looks? Anyone know what shipping and handling typically runs?

 

[Fire-medic]

If you are looking for concrete #'s which may be generated by switching exhausts, Sean Morley is probably who you want to speak with on here.

My understanding is that the 4/1 has a better scavenge effect and promotes high-HP #'s on-top of the rev band, but how-much time do you spend there? They are probably a good choice for drag racing or top-end runs.

The 4/2 is probably a good all-round choice for having a good effective response throughout the rev range. To get benefits from changing your exhaust, you need to do the entire system, as slip-ons will increase the 'bark' but not necessarily the 'bite.'

Big-displacement engines benefit from big tubes, but reknowned tuners such-as CR Axtell can vouch for smaller passages keeping the gas velocity high and actually flowing better than headers which are larger. Kevin Cameron, the guy who writes on tech issues for Cycle World had a great article on H-D flatheads and gas flow awhile-ago, where lowering the compression ratio allowed better cylinder filling because the gas flowed better in & out of the heads, which is kinda the same thing you are asking, "how do I attain better breathing?". All parts of the system have to work together, a bottleneck or engineering shortcoming in one affects the entire system. :damn angry:

If you buy either one, I think you will be happy as-long as you get it set-up correctly. Whose jet kit are you going with? Sean Morley's kit-Morley's Muscle- is a complete system many on here are happy with. Factory Pro is another choice (http://www.factorypro.com/Prod_Pages/prody11.html) , and the venerable Dynojet Stage 7 (forget about thee lesser-numbered DJ kits, not worth the bother) pretty-much round-out the common choices. Remember the last sentence of the prior paprgraph. And, having someone who knows what they are doing can make all the difference when it comes time to make everything work correctly together. :biglaugh:There's nothing more-frustrating than to get a $1000 (or $2K!) into a project and to not be able to make it work as you had hoped.:confused2:

 

[Karmakatt]

Yea Medic I agree. I'm fortunate to have a good Tech who stayed 100% to his word when he took on my UFO's and Jetting. It cost him much more of his time than he thought. Like most others here, I'd go with a Kit. Only "regret" is not doing it at the time.

 

[Karmakatt]

As far as sound, I had a set of SuperTrapps on previously and on one side the Trapps didn't sit well and I needed a good carb clean/synch. My point is that when I rode, I heard one side over the other. Which leads me to believe that I'll hear the 4-1 as being "unbalanced" compared to the 4/2 set up.

 

[Fire-medic]

Maybe you should go have your hearing checked by an audiologist? Not sayin' something wasn't different one side to the other on the bike, but check all systems, yours-included!

 

[Karmakatt]

Hehe..
Point taken my friend..
The only way I'll know aside from an Auditory Test (I've had 2 in the last 3 years) is riding a 4/1!! BTW, I'm not knocking the 4/1!!
If and probably when I decide to go with one of those $$$ single sided Swinger and a $$$$ $$$$ tire I'll sell my 4/2 and go 4/1..

 

[Fire-medic]

Hehe..
Point taken my friend..
The only way I'll know aside from an Auditory Test (I've had 2 in the last 3 years) is riding a 4/1!! BTW, I'm not knocking the 4/1!!
If and probably when I decide to go with one of those $$$ single sided Swinger and a $$$$ $$$$ tire I'll sell my 4/2 and go 4/1..

I have all three of the 4/1's commonly-discussed on here, though I haven't used the Kerker as I don't want to remove the centerstand tangs.

Rather than spend $5K + on my bike (which I unfortunately probably already have, since removing it from storage, and repairing damage from mechanical ailments and defunct parts), I would save for a Gen II. You can get one now for about 2/3 of what they sold for new, and maybe a bit-less if you are there w/cash in-hand. I love my Gen I, I've had it for 20 years, but I am trying to keep things reasonable. Even my wife told me, "if you had just saved your $, you could have bought a new one instead of spending $$$ on that old one!" :biglaugh: I don't know if I could have spent $20K that way, but I do see the point of her argument. Also, when you sell, all those expensive mods aren't worth what you spent. The only way to go is to remove what you can & sell it separately, if you are going to get any appreciable % back on your mods. We all have seen that time & again.

I like big-block Chevy Novas for what they represent, but if I have to drive it everyday, 'no-thanks!' A good used C6 'Vette is much-easier to live-with daily. No, I don't have either, but I have had my share of Z28's, Trans-Ams, and Mustang GT's, and my wife had a C3 Silver Anniversary a couple years old, she sold it after a year for 50% more than she paid for it. A gorgeous car, very well-kept by the original owner. The only repair I ever did to it was rear half-shaft u-joint bearings, did them myself. For the 'smog-compliant' cars of the day, it was a runner. :biglaugh:

Presently, I am of the opinion to keep it internally fairly-close-to-stock, and to make mods to systems to make it work better, i.e., brakes, suspension, carbs, ignition, lighting, appearance, w/o spending $10,000 to end up w/a bike you'd be lucky to get $4500 for, complete, and which would almost force you to disassemble all those mods to return the bike to 'stock,' which would now get you $3000, and whatever you can get on eBay for the parts, if you're going for maximum dollar instead of offfending anyone here by asking eBay prices from the forum members. :confused2:

 

[srk468]

4 into 1's are lighter and do make slightly more horsepower and honestly I just prefer the way they look and sound but that's just my opinion... I have a Kerker and I love it, if and when I buy a new one I'll have to research who makes a larger primary pipe and will probably go that direction because I use nitrous...

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[srk468]

I have all three of the 4/1's commonly-discussed on here, though I haven't used the Kerker as I don't want to remove the centerstand tangs.

Rather than spend $5K + on my bike (which I unfortunately probably already have, since removing it from storage, and repairing damage from mechanical ailments and defunct parts), I would save for a Gen II. You can get one now for about 2/3 of what they sold for new, and maybe a bit-less if you are there w/cash in-hand. I love my Gen I, I've had it for 20 years, but I am trying to keep things reasonable. Even my wife told me, "if you had just saved your $, you could have bought a new one instead of spending $$$ on that old one!" :biglaugh: I don't know if I could have spent $20K that way, but I do see the point of her argument. Also, when you sell, all those expensive mods aren't worth what you spent. The only way to go is to remove what you can & sell it separately, if you are going to get any appreciable % back on your mods. We all have seen that time & again.

I like big-block Chevy Novas for what they represent, but if I have to drive it everyday, 'no-thanks!' A good used C6 'Vette is much-easier to live-with daily. No, I don't have either, but I have had my share of Z28's, Trans-Ams, and Mustang GT's, and my wife had a C3 Silver Anniversary a couple years old, she sold it after a year for 50% more than she paid for it. A gorgeous car, very well-kept by the original owner. The only repair I ever did to it was rear half-shaft u-joint bearings, did them myself. For the 'smog-compliant' cars of the day, it was a runner. :biglaugh:

Presently, I am of the opinion to keep it internally fairly-close-to-stock, and to make mods to systems to make it work better, i.e., brakes, suspension, carbs, ignition, lighting, appearance, w/o spending $10,000 to end up w/a bike you'd be lucky to get $4500 for, complete, and which would almost force you to disassemble all those mods to return the bike to 'stock,' which would now get you $3000, and whatever you can get on eBay for the parts, if you're going for maximum dollar instead of offfending anyone here by asking eBay prices from the forum members. :confused2:

Flawed logic my friend... Your going to buy a gen 2 and then do nothing to it?? Not if your a Vmax guy your not!! LOL Gen 2's are for guys with very deep pockets because by the time you buy one and mod it to your liking even if you bought it used for a screaming deal your gonna have $15,000-$16,000 into it easy...I'm at about $7000-$8000 in mine including purchase price and I love it... All in what you wanna do but to have a bike that's to your liking then price is subjective... Just my $.02

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[ChiefP]

And if you still have it, you lose the center stand with a 4/1.

 

[srk468]

And if you still have it, you lose the center stand with a 4/1.

Just the Kerker, I know with a Mark's you keep it and pretty sure it's that way with a UFO too...

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[Fire-medic]

Just the Kerker, I know with a Mark's you keep it and pretty sure it's that way with a UFO too...

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The UFO doesn't retain the centerstand except when you are servicing the bike, you have to use the supplied centerstand pivot pins and it is a static mount only, you do nor keep the centerstand on the bike while underway. if you go to planetvmax, you can look at the directions for the UFO 4/1.

 

[Fire-medic]

Flawed logic my friend... Your going to buy a gen 2 and then do nothing to it?? Not if your a Vmax guy your not!! LOL Gen 2's are for guys with very deep pockets because by the time you buy one and mod it to your liking even if you bought it used for a screaming deal your gonna have $15,000-$16,000 into it easy...I'm at about $7000-$8000 in mine including purchase price and I love it... All in what you wanna do but to have a bike that's to your liking then price is subjective... Just my $.02

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Ah, I think that Niles Brandywine is getting the better of you! :biglaugh: I have the 'deep pockets' but right now I am more-interested in saving $$$ than spending $$$. Yes, I'm cheap! I probably am alongside you in total capital outlay. I would rather spend the bucks to get into a Gen II than to modify a Gen I to the ragged edge of reliability and function. That's just my opinion. Whatever your ride, you make decisions based on your particular economic condition, and I am of the opinion that for me, spending big bucks on a Gen I isn't worth it, to me. "Your results may vary." We make choices in life, if I had $10K I wanted to spend, I would
put it towards a Gen II instead of modifying a Gen I.

I enjoy reading about your exploits, but I sure wouldn't want to back them financially. I may just hold-onto my '92 until I decide to stop riding, but I think that my best results are going to be from keeping things essentially stock internally, for the engine, while other components are modified, and for that, I have already done much of it.

Post-up your times, when you go to US 131 Martin Dragway or wherever you choose to run, I will vicariously live in the moment of your victories and bemoan your breakages, and your defeats.

 

[srk468]

Ah, I think that Niles Brandywine is getting the better of you! :biglaugh: I have the 'deep pockets' but right now I am more-interested in saving $$$ than spending $$$. Yes, I'm cheap! I probably am alongside you in total capital outlay. I would rather spend the bucks to get into a Gen II than to modify a Gen I to the ragged edge of reliability and function. That's just my opinion. Whatever your ride, you make decisions based on your particular economic condition, and I am of the opinion that for me, spending big bucks on a Gen I isn't worth it, to me. "Your results may vary." We make choices in life, if I had $10K I wanted to spend, I would
put it towards a Gen II instead of modifying a Gen I.

I enjoy reading about your exploits, but I sure wouldn't want to back them financially. I may just hold-onto my '92 until I decide to stop riding, but I think that my best results are going to be from keeping things essentially stock internally, for the engine, while other components are modified, and for that, I have already done much of it.

Post-up your times, when you go to US 131 Martin Dragway or wherever you choose to run, I will vicariously live in the moment of your victories and bemoan your breakages, and your defeats.

It's all in what you want to do bud and I don't blame anyone wanting to step up to the plate on a gen 2, I was just making the point about cost outlay being comparable on a modded gen 1 vs. a modded gen 2 is all.. The only thing that's ever broke on my bike and left me stranded is when I popped a driveshaft on the southwest Michigan VMOA ride last year but other that that every mod I've done has been by choice and as I said I really don't have all that much into my bike (roughly $7000-$7500 or so that's including purchase price) considering what it does.. At me weighing 293lbs in my gear I've went 11.21 @ 119.2mph and my best on spray to date is 10.53 @ 132.3mph but I did weigh about 12lbs less that time.. Shooting for a weight of 270lbs or less in my gear this year but I'm a big guy so its not easy.. I'd need a hell of a lot more financial backing to buy a gen 2 though!! LOL

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[Maxine]

And if you still have it, you lose the center stand with a 4/1.

The Hindle/HoleShot allows you to retain the center stand full time as well. I myself choose to take it off and just put it back on for service. I dont care for the look of it on the left side of the bike without a pipe to cover it.

Like most guys here have already said...4/1 little more top end HP...4/2 stronger midrange but a tad less on top. between that information and the look you are going for you should be able to make decision.

 

[cgswss]

The difference won't be felt on your seat of the pants dyno. Even on the track, you have to be ultra close on your setup before one is better then the other. I think it more important to get a package which includes carb mods from the same source as set up will be more important then theory. If I had the money, I'd most likely go with Sean's new hybrid system and his recommendation on carb mods. That said I though you might find this of value.

http://www.holeshot.com/old/vmax/vmx_4-2dyno.html

 

[Redbone]

The difference won't be felt on your seat of the pants dyno. Even on the track, you have to be ultra close on your setup before one is better then the other. I think it more important to get a package which includes carb mods from the same source as set up will be more important then theory. If I had the money, I'd most likely go with Sean's new hybrid system and his recommendation on carb mods. That said I though you might find this of value.

http://www.holeshot.com/old/vmax/vmx_4-2dyno.html

I believe the system that Sean uses is Mark's Performance exhaust to which he adds his own cans. They sound great! I have Marks SS 4 into 2 with 12" cans that have 2.25" openings. It is plenty loud @ a measured 114db which matched a UFO 4 into 1 measured side by side. I have A muscle jet kit which works well with a Mark's exhaust.


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[Samfish]

Thanks to everyone for the advice. I am so glad I found
this forum. I appreciate all the Vmax wisdom...