58.167 MPGs, I Like

[jfeagins]

I appreciate you having shared your ride experience with the forum. I wasn't implying you lied John. Since you state such fantastic mileages, previously unheard of here in Vmaxland, I simply thought you must have made a mistake somewhere in your math. My bike's odo is off in the opposite direction as yours, as is most everyone elses here, in that it reads high. When mine indicates 60mph, I am only GPS verified to be going a hair over 58mph. If I recall correctly (it's been many years since I paid attention to this), my odometer was spinning miles off a bit too quickly on a scale equaling what my speedo is off. On my best day (ever), and weighing in at a cool 160lbs, and with ideal conditions and flat highway, I was barely able to achieve 40-41mpg. I did this by traveling at a steady rate of 80mph (indicated). On the same route, different occasion, I tried doing the same and maintaining a calm 60mph (indicated). On that trip, I was only able to achieve 37mpg.

Hopefully we can ride together some time. I am planning to attend Kyles 1st annual Vmax rally in Maggie Valley, NC. Perhaps, since you reside in the same state, and although it's over 230 miles from you, you could attend the same? Then you can show me where you get this good gas you are buying.

Please accept my apology if I've offended you in any way with my previous posts on this thread. Sometimes I come off totally different than I mean to.

[edit] I am from the "Show Me" state, you know. lol

 

[Fire-medic]

OK, not advocating anything one way or the other. I know John to be a trustworthy person who selflessly trusts in the worthiness of his fellow man. That is not to say he is a gullible person, soon-parted from his money, he is not a 'rube.' He's had an experience outside of what I have been able to achieve in my VMax mileage. I'm usually in the low 30's, Stage 7 & UFO 4/1, COP's, radials.

Anyone recall the Mobil Economy Runs? Back in the early 1960's is when they got a lot of publicity. The drivers knew all the tricks. They were there for the numbers (MPG), not for comfort. Common dodges were highly-inflated tires, all windows closed, no A-C, doing the absolute minimum speed required, coasting, infrequent use of brakes, etc. The American Motors cars often won their categories because they had low-power tunes, were light in weight, and they used savvy drivers. The Rambler American was a perennial favorite. It was fun to read the articles in the magazines about the results, and the articles where some of the drivers 'gave-up' some of their tricks, but not many, as they wanted to win next year! I could see where minimizing the body gaps between the bumper and the sheetmetal, maybe removing the windshield wipers, taping-over panel gaps, removing outside mirrors, and other things could all contribute to maximizing results. However, if there was an impartial observer riding in the car, well, those wouldn't work!

In NASCAR, there used to be frames designed to be plumbed into the fuel system, so that the car could get a few more gallons of gas aboard, to maybe eliminate a fuel stop, or to run some high-octane fuel not allowed by race rules.

I think it was Gordon Jennings, of Ducati "Old Blue" Daytona 200 race-winner fame, who upon seeing the Butler & Smith mono-suspension BMW's was reported to have said, "I see we've fallen well-behind on our cheating!" The B&S BMW's just took advantage of a specifications loophole, and maximized their design to its benefit.

If John is like one of those Mobil Economy Run drivers, maybe he's found the 'sweet-spot' in-which to operate. Me, I'd rather screw the throttle, and wait for the VBoost to give me another "E" ticket ride (sonny, ask your parents who have been to Disneyland or Disneyworld before you were a tax deduction for them).

 

[blaxmax]

[edit] I am from the "Show Me" state, you know. lol

Kinda like a Texan----You can always tell a Texan but you can't tell him anything!!
I get 45mpg.

 

[cyclejohn]

Please accept my apology if I've offended you in any way with my previous posts on this thread.

Hey Jfeagins,

No apology is due me. I was actually enjoying the conversations in this thread. I guess anytime you can get this many people from this many different countries telling you that you're full of it you have no choice but to chuckle and put that one in the 'WIN' column.

If we ever get to ride together I'm going to consider that a blessing given to me as a gift.

Fire-Medic's assessment of me is so close that it's kind of freaky. I do understand a lot of people's desires for MAX POWER. Me, if my Vmax has 100hp then that is probably 40 more than I will ever use, so it can just sit there in reserve if I ever need it. I do concentrate more to the smooth and ride-ability side of the equation. Since most of my riding is in the mountains and curves.... smooth = fast.

Jfeagins, will you be attending the meet-up in Maggie Valley?

John

 

[one2dmax]

I've not ever seen that. Had close to 50 with an overdrive equipped bike with optimal cruising conditions (44 two up was common). To approach 60 would require an extremely lean condition. I suppose anything is possible but by far way out of the norm. So much so that it does make it a challenge to believe.

 

[BLKMAX]

Best I ever got was 50.68965517241379 mpg. 2.9 gallons and 147 miles. Highway 36 in NorCal from Alton to Red Bluff.

 

[jdeitz1979]

I'm sure it's possible to achieve the 58.16 mpg. I'm willing to bet he's a very conservative rider, but if that's the case, what's the point in the 100+ hp at the wheel. I think I average about 28 to 30-ish and mostly high rpms and lots of fun. Depends on fuel too I've noticed


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[blaxmax]

I've not ever seen that. Had close to 50 with an overdrive equipped bike with optimal cruising conditions (44 two up was common). To approach 60 would require an extremely lean condition. I suppose anything is possible but by far way out of the norm. So much so that it does make it a challenge to believe.

I disagree with a lean engine getting more mpg. A finely tuned engine will get better gas mileage than a rich or lean engine.

 

[thor_eyerdhal]

Correct at WOT, big butterflies openings and real life mixed driving.
Wrong at part throttle openings, the engine can run fine with high AFR

 

[06VMAXIMUS]

I was happy this past weekend cause I broke 40mpg riding 2 up. I suppose with very light throttle hand, solo with no passenger, and a nice overdrive, anything is possible.

 

[Miles Long]

I like those Triumph triples. A couple of years ago a friend bought one and let me ride it, Nice.....

My Vmax is pretty much just like it was born. I replaced the 37.5 pilot jets with 40's and I run the pilot screws at 3 turns out. I replaced the 152.5 main jets with 147.5s. Stock air filter and stock head pipes attached to SuperTrapp slip-ons with 8 disc on each. Float levels are spot on and I check that a couple of times a year. I keep the intakes in perfect synch because it is so easy to do.

John

So we now know your setup.
So share with us your riding secrets to obtain this incredible mpg.
I was not implying that you were lying, just that your math may have been a tad off.
I am acquainted with a fellow in Nova Scotia, a professional truck driver (5 million accident-free miles and counting) who routinely gets exceptional mileage from his Max, as well as other bikes. "All in the technique" is all he will say.
Soooooo........fes up, John! How do you do it?
Cheers!

 

[Fire-medic]

An interesting article on the Mobil Economy Runs: http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/article/march-1960/12/1960-mobil-economy-run

 

[thor_eyerdhal]

So we now know your setup.
So share with us your riding secrets to obtain this incredible mpg.
Cheers!

He didn't tell us his weight

 

[jfeagins]

...
Hopefully we can ride together some time. I am planning to attend Kyles 1st annual Vmax rally in Maggie Valley, NC. Perhaps, since you reside in the same state, and although it's over 230 miles from you, you could attend the same? ...

Hey Jfeagins,

..

Jfeagins, will you be attending the meet-up in Maggie Valley?

John

Please re-read my last post.

 

[cyclejohn]

So we now know your setup.

So share with us your riding secrets to obtain this incredible mpg.

I can't change the hard data (meaning, the odometer reading was at 146 and the fuel pump gallon readout was at 2.510).

In the words of the great BlaxMax "A racer never tells his secrets", I like that.
But, I'm not a racer, just an old man with a passion for riding a motorcycle.

The links and descriptions of fuel misers that Fire-Medic provided links to does kinda describe some of the stupid little things that I do for entertainment purposes only, but, once again I will try to point out that smooth throttle operation means a whole lot.

If more details are desired I will offer this up for conversation.

I'm 5'8"
I used to weigh 160lbs but I must have lost a little weight because I've had to cinch up my belt 2 notches to keep my pants from falling down.
I have ATV 4-wheeler handlebars on my bike.
I have a National Cycle Deflector shield mounted up (the old style not the new) that provides just enough coverage to keep my torso from acting like a parachute.
I have engine guards mounted.
I have stock fork springs and I have my stock rear shocks at 1 on the spring position and at 1 on the dampener position.
I run 35lbs of pressure in both tires.
I popped the seals on the 'sealed' wheel bearings and packed them with wheel bearing grease and then popped the seal back on.
I run 15-40 Rotella
Every year I pump out the pistons in my brake calipers just enough to remove any corrosion ring that may have formed that would keep the pads from retracting and causing brake drag. I also keep the sliders cleaned and lubed.

I enjoy the Vboost Zone just like everyone else here. In the foothills and mountains where I ride mostly I don't like Vboost kicking in when I'm in a curve hard so I keep my RPMs below that slightly no matter what the gear selection is. The short passing zones there is where my Vboost gets used mostly.

Probably, like a lot of motorcycle riding enthusiast, I have watched several instructional videos. My favorites are the ones by Keith Code. He emphasizes smooth throttle control and trail braking to get through curves and that's what I try to do.

A good local friend of mine says that my riding style "Looks like a monkey playing with a football". He doesn't say "playing with a football" he says something else that I'm not going to put into print on a public forum. I don't exactly understand what he means by it but it does make me smile.

Carbs have been discussed at great lengths for many years on the forum here and everybody understands exactly how they operate. Maybe something that I may or may not do differently is I don't use much engine braking. Chopping the throttle and closing the plates brings in to operation the coasting enricheners on the carbs and that's a big gas waster (a big gas waster). I would never make it as a drag racer because I don't have the skill to do that so tuning for max power means nothing to me. Before I reach a curve I have already scrubbed off the speed I need to, mostly through throttle manipulation, and from the time I enter to the time I exit I am on the gas using just a bit of rear trail braking to hold the line. Nothing secret about that. I go through a lot of rear brake pads but I use organics that don't hurt the rotor. They do fade quicker when they get hot and stay hot but they cool off good enough when we stop for a break.

Maybe my odometer readout is off by 20-30-40%. Don't know, don't care (if I actually believed that I would do something about it).

With I put 40 slow jets and 147.5 mains in the carbs I also installed new spark plugs. After 1K miles I pulled the plugs out and they were still just as white as the day I stuck them in, so, I put the stock 152.5s back in. That caused a slight loss in throttle crispness in the RPM range above 4K so I pulled them back out and put the 147.5s back in. It is what it is.

John

 

[blaxmax]

^:clapping:

 

[cyclejohn]

I'm willing to bet he's a very conservative rider, but if that's the case, what's the point in the 100+ hp at the wheel.

That one made me smile. HP isn't the point to me.

Have you ever heard a Vmax running? If the Vmax only made 50 HP and was still able to have the sound that it does I would still own one.

The only other V4 motorcycle that gives me goosebumps when I hear it running is the Aprilia Tuono (with a proper exhaust on it).

John

 

[jdeitz1979]

I have heard the vmax running, I own one lol. But keep in mind, without that hp the noise wouldn't exist. Close, but the not quite the rasp it has. I sometimes try to go slow and conservative but the bike is just so much fun.


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[cyclejohn]

Hey Jedeitz1979,

I was just joking. I figured if you were on a Vmax forum that it meant you had one.

The doubts in this thread made some doubts come into my own head. So, I pulled the front wheel off of my bike so I could get the part # off of the speedo drive. The part # matches the same part # that is available through parts places on the internet. A few weeks ago I sold the Dymag wheels on my bike, on the forum here, to Fire-Medic. I also sent him the YZF6 speedo drive that corrects the speedometer for the different wheel/tire size. This thread made me wonder if I had sent him my stock speedo drive by mistake. I didn't.

With the Dymag wheel/tire combo and the YZF6 speedo drive..... at 60 indicated my tach was sitting on 3650 RPMs. With the stock wheel/tire combo and the stock speedo drive..... at 60 indicated my tach is sitting on 4050 RPMs. That matches what my '03 readout was all those years.

Anyway, time to put this thread to bed, goodnight.

Take care,
John

 

[Fire-medic]

In reference to my post #22, about racers or competitors in motorsports seeking an advantage, here's an article about the proprietor of a Daytona Beach garage belonging to one of the 'secret weapons' of NASCAR competition, Smokey Yunick.

http://www.hotrod.com/features/history/stories/ctrp-0801-smokey-yunick/

Smokey allegedly had a 'back-door' access to GM in the 1960's, and was the creator of the 7/8 scale Chevelle which resulted in the use of body templates in NASCAR to check the size of the car. He also ran the 'porcupine' big block 396/427 Mark IV 'mystery motor' in NASCAR competition before anyone else. No one had seen the valve stems in a Chevy angled like those Smokey was running. Between the smaller, more aerodynamic body and the Mark IV Chevy motor, Smokey established some significant advantages for his team.

Be sure to read the article about Smokey's inventive way of circumventing the rules. He did it again and again. The last story, about a 1950's race at Darlington, is a pipper!

One example of Smokey's creative interpretation: the NASCAR rules said, "the engine cannot be moved-back in the chassis to change weight distribution." However it said nothing about moving the entire body forward several inches to achieve the same thing!