Adventures with Powdercoating

[PATMAX]

Currently, there is no PC anything close to chrome and I do not see anything on the horizon. All of it is just a nice silvery shade with no depth of color. It's very close to the color of clearcoat on factory aluminum parts without the depth of the clear. I don't see why they insist on calling it chrome. False advertising. Closest thing powdercoating can do is just a plain clear over a polished part.

 

[fmcandrew]

OK...it has been awhile since I posted anything as I've been working on my airbox cover. Paint from PO was starting to fail and I thought it time to PC the cover. I knew there were some issues with the cover as I could see deformed metal from underneath...just didn't know how bad until I stripped and removed all the bondo...

This damage was similar on the other corner & had a small hole thru the sheet metal. Pretty ugly...so I had 2 choices

1) Find another cover that may also have hidden bodywork or
2) Learn how to fix this one...

Option #2 it was as I figured any knowledge I gained could be put to future use. Did some research and found that there are only a couple of high temp fillers on the market so I went with High Temp Lab Metal. I have no pics of this process as I was sure that I'd work...the process was (after prepping the surface (bead blast in my case):
1) Mix well
2) Spread on repair with thickness not to exceed 1/4"
3) Air dry for 24 hours
4) Cure at 425 for 90 minutes
5) Repeat until required thickness achieved
6) Sand to shape
Well, all was going pretty well but it was taking forever with 24 hour air dry times between layers and all...got one side in good shape but the other side was deeper and needed more material...on the 3rd cure cycle the product failed...it cracked & lifted...:hammer bash:...took some time to wallow in self pity and reflect on choosing Option #2 instead of Option #1

After a brief bout of depression I recalled seeing some chat about using solder as a body filler...nothing that interested at the time as I've never worked with the stuff, but given my recent failure with the Lab Metal I figured what the Hell...

So after some research I settled on Eastwood's lead free body solder. Watched a few vids and decided this time to document the process. Once again prepped the surface with bead blasting and here we go...

Above I paint on some Eastwood Flux-n-Solder...it is grey when applied but will change when heated - I mixed this well to ensure good adhesion

Using a regular propane torch I heat the flux until it turn shiny silver...there will be nasty brown goo that forms...these are impurities and are simply wiped away with a clean rag...This is called "tinning" and ensures a good solder to metal bond

Now I applied the solder...first attempt so I used way more than required...not the easiest to work with & it runs...I did my best to level the work piece so that the solder would "pool" in the area to be fixed...still had some runs:confused2:

Before going crazy & grinding/sanding the large areas I did this small area first to see if I achieved a good bond...feeling better about my chances on this attempt:clapping:

Here is the largest fixed area ground down - not looking too shabby

And the other side with the hole...it filled in with no issues and came out similar to the other side

Next steps are to lay down a thick coat of PC primer (that can be sanded) to fill in the small stuff - then lay final coat.

Waiting on the primer...will update with pics to see how well it all holds up under the cure process.


I got the KL primer and applied a thick coat...it sanded well as advertised and I'm 99% happy with the results. So far the leadfree solder is holding up to the multiple cure cycles (unlike the above mentioned Lab Metal)

Just need to base coat/clear coat...when I find the time:bang head:

 

[PATMAX]

I'm no Bumping hero but no way would I fill those depressions. I have a dolly set and a few bumping hammers, a shrinking hammer ( rotates when struck) and that would smooth most of that. I also have a paintless dent removal tool that helps a bunch but our Airbox lids are almost too heavy to go that route. The part that sucks is the inner brace. It blocks access to behind damage. It could probably be removed to get at the metal damage but is that much work worth it when I can find a used cover from $50-75 bucks.
I made my own on tinning and solder filling tools out of maple more than 20 years ago and have yet to use them!


When in doubt...Gas it !!!

 

[PATMAX]

Pics of my latest customers backrest who will go unnamed. These came to me powdercoated in clear already but was a poorly done job. Too thick, poor prep, no custom finish of the metal.
Anyhow, took about double the time to strip the old coating, and had lots of factory flaws. If I keep this up, I may be able to guesstimate what year a casting has come from judging by how rough a casting it is. The pictures are after two media blasting and three hand filing/sanding sessions to get everything up to my standards. One light media blasting to even out the surface texture and its time for cooking. Ugh! Did the matching luggage rack and it had the worst sand cast texturing underneath that I have ever seen. Not making much on this one but it goes out the door knowing its the best it can possibly be.

When in doubt...Gas it !!!

 

[fmcandrew]

I agree with your $50-$75 comment...except that a lid at that price probably has repaired damage that can't be PC'd (bondo...and lots of it...)

Even if you could bang it out (mine had a hole on one side) you'd still be stuck filling with something...I tried the Lab Metal & it failed (the lid is thin & the expanding/contraction from hot to cold is what did it in IMO), so I wanted to try something new & hopefully permanent. Just a good skill to learn if a rare item needs to be fixed and the desire is to PC after repair...that's all...

 

[fmcandrew]

Know I'm working with the alumiweld...which should also fix broken aluminum castings...if it PC's well then more money/parts might be able to be saved...

 

[fmcandrew]

(continuation of photos above)

So all done...below is a closeup of the worked area


Here is a shot of the completed part


Finally, the whole bike


Lots of learning on this project, but well worth it!

 

[train460]

read thru every thread tonight. Great info. I am really thinking of getting the basic stuff to powdercoat little things here and there. I can use a bead blaster at work if i don't buy a harbor freight one first. Will just get a cheap oven on craigslist. Looked at several PC kits on eastwood, Some $100 and some kits $200+.
See some dual voltage, hot coat, 1000 volt guns etc. What would you reccomend on these kits? Buy just the gun and powder seperate or a kit to get started with the powder included etc.

 

[fmcandrew]

Eastwood guns are ok if you're on a tight budget and want to get you feet wet. But 10,000 volts will limit you to small parts and maybe just one coat. I use a Redline 50 (50,000 volts) and I'm very pleased, but that gun will run you $400 or so. Stay with the cup guns, many decent choices and color change/cleanup are fast...

Most important is to have a good ground...I have an earth ground and it allows my Eastwood to perform decently...

 

[train460]

I am sure once I get started I will have a ton more questions.
Michael

 

[sdt354]

Eastwood guns are ok if you're on a tight budget and want to get you feet wet. But 10,000 volts will limit you to small parts and maybe just one coat. I use a Redline 50 (50,000 volts) and I'm very pleased, but that gun will run you $400 or so. Stay with the cup guns, many decent choices and color change/cleanup are fast...

Most important is to have a good ground...I have an earth ground and it allows my Eastwood to perform decently...

The duel voltage gun from Eastwood will give you 25k voltage, set on high.This is adequate for 80% of my needs. But. there are times I wish I had more. Coating hot can make the cheaper guns more effective. The Eastwood guns are not very well made. The dead man switch on mine was n/g on arrival. I was in a hurry and by-passed it to get work out. I've worked around it by unplugging the gun when I want the power off. The 25k setting will wake you right up,and make you drop anything in your hands.

 

[PATMAX]

Oh yeah, someone should have mentioned how Powdercoating can be a "Shocking" experience.
You can't read about that in a forum!

 

[fmcandrew]

Steve...I have both Eastwood PC guns (10k & 10/25k) and the newer dual voltage gun never really gave me good results, so I have a hard time recommending it personally. I still use the 10k gun from time to time, but never the 10/25k gun. Maybe I just got a lemon?!?!?!?

Pat - you are correct...while these are electrostatic guns there is a ton of volts being discharged...the FUNKY CHICKEN sucks!!

 

[sdt354]

Steve...I have both Eastwood PC guns (10k & 10/25k) and the newer dual voltage gun never really gave me good results, so I have a hard time recommending it personally. I still use the 10k gun from time to time, but never the 10/25k gun. Maybe I just got a lemon?!?!?!?

Pat - you are correct...while these are electrostatic guns there is a ton of volts being discharged...the FUNKY CHICKEN sucks!!

I started with a very cheap gun I got as a present one year. It was a Wai I believe. It had it's own air supply. I got decent results, but the control of the gun was terrible. The only other I've had is tyhe 10/25k Eastwood. So I have little to compare to Frank, but I believe you.I've seen your excellent results.

 

[fmcandrew]

I guess it really boils down to what you're PC'ing...Bigger/thicker stuff will need the extra voltage if shot cold. You are right that you can hot flock just about anything, but that's a skill I've yet to master - if ever?!?!?

The powders I work with just like to be laid on thick to flow well. Next would be to get a touchless depth meter...very expensive, but at least you'd know for sure you're at the right mil thickness per mfg. So much to learn...so little time...

 

[train460]

what do you do to ground the powdercoated piece and have the end project NOT show the place where you attached the ground?

 

[sdt354]

what do you do to ground the powdercoated piece and have the end project NOT show the place where you attached the ground?

Shoot the spot last with out the juice. It will usually stick ok, depending on where you hooked the ground clip up. An area on the edge somewhere, not in an
enclosed area. There is still a static charge on the part. Hot parts can be shot without a ground. I usually put my clean parts in the oven as it warms up to 400 deg. This burns off any oil from your skin. Then if there isn't any oil burning off, I'll shoot them at the temp they are right out of the oven after cooling about a minute or two. This helps fill in minor surface scratches. Not to be confused with burning parts clean. Some stuff is oil saturated and needs a long cook off after digressing with solvents. Like 20 minutes or longer.
I'm finding that laying it on too thick causes orange peel effects. A real disappointing result. Stripping a large piece to redo will make you wish you had sent it out. I've never had good luck with 2nd coatings.
PC'n can be a pain in the ***. Clean is the key.
Steve

 

[fmcandrew]

If the part is being hung then you'd just ground to the hanger...almost everything I've shot has a bolt hole or ridge to hang from...which becomes invisible when the part is reinstalled. Touch-up paint is also an option if the part doesn't hold a residual charge per Steve's method.

 

[PATMAX]

Well, on a big wheel, you loop the wire all around the wheel the same place a rubber spoke strip would be on a bicycle wheel. No hang marks. Sometimes you can get away with lust an "L" shape bend in a stiffer piece if wire if the part is not too heavy. Experience doing what works and what doesn't is key too. I just sprayed a tiny bracket for myself and left the dreaded Hanger void on the part. Had to redo. Live and learn.

 

[sdt354]

How are you all stripping PC? I have a good gas powered compressor with 11 cmf at 120lbs. It's a chore to ge this stuff blasted off. I have a stator cover to redo and took a brass wire wheel to it. That worked well, but a bead blasting to smooth it out will be in order. What media is best? I know Frank has a stripping tank, but I can't do that. I did just do a reverse chrome process with a battery charger,and electrolyte, it worked pisser, turned the chrome to sludge.