Any structural engineers in here?

[Fire-medic]

I think I saw the kitchen sink in there.

Good job. Overbuilt is better than the alternative, right?

 

[Barry barker]

First class job, good luck finding tie straps as strong as your new hold downs!!:rofl_200:

Nice Bike!!!!

 

[rebar]

Thanks man..

Iv got another strength question. I need to mount some ancra tie downs and E track on the wall into 1/8" aluminum studs to secure a tool box etc.. Are good monel pop-rivets stronger than self tapping screws? Or tapping machine screws?

Thanks

 

[Barry barker]

I had to look up monel, thought it was a non ferrous metal, but had to be sure. Learn something everyday. From what i can find on the internet, the monel or stainless pop rivots are the way to go. 1/8 is pretty thin for threads. another good point i found on Google:
"Have you ever looked at an airplane? Avex blind rivits are what they use. If screws were stronger, I would think that's what they would use".

Screws can and will back out, stainless pop rivots are there for life unless overloaded. MHO

 

[rebar]

Thanks Barry..

From what I'm reading.. A rivet nut would be the strongest..

Now to find a good rivet-nut kit and very short drill bits.

 

[Redbone]

Monel rivets, I had to look it up too. Seems they are used in airplanes where high strength holding power is needed. From what I've just read monel rivets are easier to install than SS rivents because "Stronger than stainless but softer and therefore easier to use in rivet guns. Monel does not suffer from crevice crack corrosion like stainless." They also suggested to use a anti-corrosive paste/ gel to protect against dissimilar metal corrosion.
The reservation I have in this application is there going to be enough fasteners using a standard E-track mounting locations?
Maybe a monel rivet nut would be good in this application? Here is a example:
http://www.rapidrivet.com/rivet_nuts/1/aerospace_monel_rivet_nuts

 

[rebar]

Monel rivets, I had to look it up too. Seems they are used in airplanes where high strength holding power is needed. From what I've just read monel rivets are easier to install than SS rivents because "Stronger than stainless but softer and therefore easier to use in rivet guns. Monel does not suffer from crevice crack corrosion like stainless." They also suggested to use a anti-corrosive paste/ gel to protect against dissimilar metal corrosion.
The reservation I have in this application is there going to be enough fasteners using a standard E-track mounting locations?
Maybe a monel rivet nut would be good in this application? Here is a example:
http://www.rapidrivet.com/rivet_nuts/1/aerospace_monel_rivet_nuts

Thanks Brian.. Im leaning away from the pop rivets to mount the ancra tie downs since the base has a countersunk hole for the 1/4-28 bolts.. Pop rivits for the Etrack would be fine for my 1 X 2 1/2 X 1/8" wall studs on 16" centers, but if I buy a rivnut kit, I might as well use it for both.

Fastenal wants almost $200 for the gun not including the 100 rivnuts I would need to buy.

I found this.. ?? Forget it.. It doesn't include 1/4-28:damn angry:

 

[Redbone]

I am using the ancra style tie down point along the centerling of my trailer bolted through the frames cross rails. The points are not in a line that's why I used these, my trailer is only 6' wide. The ratchet points are 40" apart which means they will be 5" on either side of the trailers centerline.
I am also using the same style track along the entire outside edge of the trailer bolted through the frame whereever possible and using 1/8" backing plate in where no frame rails are present. I am using beveled SS bolts, washers and nylock nuts for corrosion protection.
Once I get the tiedown points finalized I am going to spray the entire bottom of the trailer with undercoating to seal up the bottom of the trailer. The frame is already undercoated but it canot hurt to have some extra protection.

 

[88vmx12]

Thanks Barry..

From what I'm reading.. A rivet nut would be the strongest..

Now to find a good rivet-nut kit and very short drill bits.

I was scrolling down through the posts . I was going to say "nut-sert" is the only way to go and it looks like you have found them already! unk: I am not much of a fan of the aluminum ones , however they are easier to squeeze off easier than the steel ones. you can get a kit at harbor freight!

G

 

[Redbone]

I was scrolling down through the posts . I was going to say "nut-sert" is the only way to go and it looks like you have found them already! unk: I am not much of a fan of the aluminum ones , however they are easier to squeeze off easier than the steel ones. you can get a kit at harbor freight!

G

You ain't just a shittin' about the aluminum rivets being easier to set!! I have a box of those SS rivets and when they break the nail flies about 10-12 feet away. The first time was quite a suprise as it hit me in the shoulder, it left a red mark on my skin! Definately wear your safety glasses when inserting the steel rivets!!!

 

[rebar]

I am using the ancra style tie down point along the centerling of my trailer bolted through the frames cross rails. The points are not in a line that's why I used these, my trailer is only 6' wide. The ratchet points are 40" apart which means they will be 5" on either side of the trailers centerline.
I am also using the same style track along the entire outside edge of the trailer bolted through the frame whereever possible and using 1/8" backing plate in where no frame rails are present. I am using beveled SS bolts, washers and nylock nuts for corrosion protection.
Once I get the tiedown points finalized I am going to spray the entire bottom of the trailer with undercoating to seal up the bottom of the trailer. The frame is already undercoated but it canot hurt to have some extra protection.

Sounds like a good plan for your enclosed.. Mine needs to be more incognito

I was scrolling down through the posts . I was going to say "nut-sert" is the only way to go and it looks like you have found them already! unk: I am not much of a fan of the aluminum ones , however they are easier to squeeze off easier than the steel ones. you can get a kit at harbor freight!

G

Yup. I called a few places and none of them sell monel 1/4-28 "nut-sert" / rivnuts etc. And the sales guy suggested aluminum because of the aluminum wall studs. I thought SS was close enough to alum on the corrosion scale.. Anyway.

As usual, I will over-engineer this and seek out the nut-sert which rules:biglaugh: Thickness and mushroom diameter. Is 1/4-20 acceptable? This place was suggested elsewhere.

The economy rivnut tool rivnut tool looks like the ticket.

 

[88vmx12]

you have to remember SS is not very friendly with steel bolts. It will gauld unless you use an anti sieze. At first it is all good until that one time you want to take your stuff off the wall then you are screwed! Aluminum I have always been afraid of the aluminum threads stripping out, granted they are lighter and easier to squeeze off. However I have never had any issues with the steel ones , so that is what I stay with. When drilling into you tube frame members make sure there is no hidden wires in them and don't go all the way through. I have seen both issues before. The wires are pretty easy to fix, yet a hole on the outside of your beautiful trail is a pisser all because the drill sucked right through the tube. Now as far as the bolt size 1/4" will hold more than you would think. Depends on how heavy the box is I would no matter what use 4 1/4" bolts that would hold an easy 50#

G

 

[88vmx12]

the tool looks awesome and that is what I would use if using steel inserts. The tool I have has a pop rivet gun type set up and is a Bitsh if using steel inserts. Once you have used them you will think why I haven't I used these before. Make sure that the inserts that you get have enough gri range to accomidate the wall thickness of your tubing and then you are off and running!

 

[rebar]

Id like to have a nutsert harder than aluminum. Is electrolosis a issue even if the materials are dry as a bone?

 

[Barry barker]

Id like to have a nutsert harder than aluminum. Is electrolosis a issue even if the materials are dry as a bone?

Yes, you should seperate the metals. But i can not tell you how long it will take for the aluminum and steel to corrode and fail. I have seen it happen quickly and not at all. I have used never seize for steel to aluminum, and or stainless connections with great sucess. How heavy is your tool box? Maybe just go up a bolt size and use the Aluminum nut zerks with a larger bolt coated in anti sieze. Or install the stainless nut zerks and coat the bolts with anti sieze to prevent them from galling.

Since this is a trailer and subject to temperature changes there will always be some moisture present due to condensation.

Sometimes i am just not all here, really guys i do have a brain it just works really slow!!! I am still running a 486 processor, and can not seen to get an upgrade.

 

[88vmx12]

Rebar,

What you could do is coat the outside of the nut -sert with a grease or anti seize this would help with any corrosion that could happen. The tighter the metals are together the better off you will be. The bad thing about coating the outside of the insert is if you do not get it super tight when installing it. The insert could roll around in the hole. Like Barry said you could always go with a bigger insert 5/16" or 3/8" just remember that you will need to make sure that you have enough room inside the tube that the insert can fully be squeezed off or full engagement is acheived. So realistically in a perfect world you have 3/4" "if " you get the drilled hole perfectly in the center of the tube. A bigger bolt might not be a bad idea since you will also want to concider the shock loading that you will be giving the bolts when driving down the road. With that being said don't put too big of a box on the wall with minimal bolts in the tubing. How big is this box anyways?

G

 

[Barry barker]

Rebar,

What you could do is coat the outside of the nut -sert with a grease or anti seize this would help with any corrosion that could happen. The tighter the metals are together the better off you will be. The bad thing about coating the outside of the insert is if you do not get it super tight when installing it. The insert could roll around in the hole. Like Barry said you could always go with a bigger insert 5/16" or 3/8" just remember that you will need to make sure that you have enough room inside the tube that the insert can fully be squeezed off or full engagement is acheived. So realistically in a perfect world you have 3/4" "if " you get the drilled hole perfectly in the center of the tube. A bigger bolt might not be a bad idea since you will also want to concider the shock loading that you will be giving the bolts when driving down the road. With that being said don't put too big of a box on the wall with minimal bolts in the tubing. How big is this box anyways?

G

I use anti sieze on just about any connection, it really isn't slippery like grease, this might work. Maybe a trial run with the nut zerk on a piece of scrap to determine the amount of torque that can be applied to the nut with anti seize.

 

[rebar]

Rebar,

Now the bad thing is if you are bolting it and use regular steel bolts then it will cause electrolosis and eventually eat away the aluminum. So then you can go to a stainless steel bolt which will curb the problem.

I also was also under the impression SS was OK on aluminum. But after a few comments, and a look at the chart I uploaded it shows mild steel has less reaction than SS. Im tempted to replace the SS bolts I used under the trailer now and order steel rivnuts

Rebar,

What you could do is coat the outside of the nut -sert with a grease or anti seize this would help with any corrosion that could happen. A bigger bolt might not be a bad idea since you will also want to consider the shock loading that you will be giving the bolts when driving down the road. With that being said don't put too big of a box on the wall with minimal bolts in the tubing. How big is this box anyways?

G

The tool box is 32" x 38" x 16" and could weigh as much as 400 lbs if I load it up.
The ancra tie downs wont except anything larger than a 1/4" bolt and would be weaker if I drilled and counter sunk them deeper. I already have eight of them.

I think this will work well and these..

 

[Barry barker]

I also was also under the impression SS was OK on aluminum. But after a few comments, and a look at the chart I uploaded it shows mild steel has less reaction than SS. Im tempted to replace the SS bolts I used under the trailer now and order steel rivnuts

My aluminum boat trailer has stainless bolts, no corrsion or rust and it is 12 years old and spent most of its life in brackish water near Houston. My other boat buddies with steel bolts had to replace them if they could. Contradictory I know, but real life, i have not had a stainless screw or bolt rust/oxidize in aluminum. I can not say that about steel or galvanized.

The tool box is 32" x 38" x 16" and could weigh as much as 400 lbs if I load it up.

How do you feel about a floor supported tool box?

 

[Redbone]

How do you feel about a floor supported tool box?

I will be outfitting my trailer with a 3 drawer tool chest and will probably mount it in a cabinet built into the "V". I was thinking of a tray that chest could sit into and slide out to access the top tray but would be strapped down/ pushed in while under way. I will keep the cabinet stucture to a minimum for weight purposes but want a small bench top, tool storage, and some oil, lubricants, etc storage. My single axle is rated for 3000 lbs. and currently running load range "C" 4 ply tires but may go to a load range "D" 6 ply, I'll see what my tire guy says.
EDIT: Maybe a middle chest is a better option than having top opening chest mounted in a sliding tray.