Bad Rectifier/Regulator?

[DRWard]

First of ALL, thanks to Buster for posting the sticky about charging sytem troubleshooting, I think I am heading in the right direction.
Also, apologize up front for long post, thought I would try to include what I know.
Came home the other night after riding several hours. Bike would not crank or VERY slow crank. First thought BATTERY? Check voltage at battery, 11.8 volts. I hit starter, drops to 7ish. I have a Panasonic 1220p, 20AH like folks have suggested. Looks like it has been in about 2.5 yrs. PO had put it in. Bought a new battery from Batteries Plus, equivalent type to Panasonic, Duracel AGM type. 12.28 volts out of the box. Bike starts right up. Noticed the voltage ONLY went up to 12.58 after 3000 plus RPM. Concerned but wasn't sure, thought it should have been around 13.2 or so. Took it out for a few hours, headlight, fan, turn signals and brake lights, etc. Noticed it would dim headlight when applying brakes. Thought better check output again. Still only getting 12.5ish at higher RPM, less than 12.0 at idle.
Starting troubleshooting steps from sticky.
Walking through the steps I am a little confused when I reached the rectifier steps on page 3, step "C" third test on page.
R/R removed from bike. The OEM connector for the Stator wires was removed from PO (Previous Owner) like I have read on previous post to illuminate connector issues.
It states: The meter displays "OL", or a voltage above 1.5 on all three tests. (see 1st picture)
I get "OL" on two of the wires and 2.16 v on the third. Does this pass the test?
Do ALL three need to be the SAME? ALL other test before this test, ALL three were about the same readings. the .5v or OL like stated.

Looks like I have still the original R/R on the bike. Don't mind upgrading to the newer R1 style like I have read on other post, just wanting a confirmation on my logic.

Additional info:
STATOR test good on all three over 50 volts AC around 4000 RPM, no Shorts in STATOR
Other connectors have been cleaned and even temp bi-passed directly to the battery for testing.

What are your thoughts? Am I missing anything or do I just have a bad R/R?
Thanks in advance.

 

[Traumahawk]

Just FYI, I went thru 2 of the Duracell AGM batteries in 3 years. Both from batteries plus.

 

[Bill Seward]

You have pictured one of the early shunt regulators. Not a good design. Read up posts concerning upgrading to MOSFET or SERIES type regulators. Well worth the small effort and expense.

Check your stator for internal phase resistance. There are 3 white wires coming out of the stator. Check resistance between every combination of these wires, they should be about 1.5 or thereabouts ohms. And they should be consistent between the 3 combinations of wires. Now, check if any of those 3 wires are grounded. Check between the wire and ground. Should be an open circuit, infinite ohms. If one or more is grounded, you need a stator.
Check for AC output of the phases. Set meter for ACVolts, and again check between pairs of the 3 wires to get all 3 combinations. Engine should be revving to about 3,000 RPM. Look for 40 to 50 VAC. On every combinations.

The regulator needs to be securely grounded. This old style unit grounds through the footpeg bracket to the frame. There are many points of resistance in this method of grounding. What I'd do is run a heavy ground wire from a shiny clean mounting screw, right to ground on the battery. I'd also run that red wire directly (through a 30A fuse) to the + battery post. You have now eliminated all the possible sketchy connections in the bikes wiring harness that may be adding resistance, and decreasing power to the battery.

I've got an '85. The charging system was a hassle for the first 27 years I owned it. I wound up with a high output stator from RMStator.com, and a Shindengen SH775 Series regulator, wired in the circuit as I have described. I am getting 14.4 to 14.5 volts at every RPM above idle. The bike cranks like you've got the plugs pulled out - effortlessly. You're gonna see a huge difference in everything from the brightness of the lights, to the loudness of the horn. I've got my headlight relayed, powered directly from the battery, and the stock H-4 bulb is incredibly bright.

One more thing - be sure to SOLDER or use PosiLock connectors on the stator to regulator connections. Twisting and taping them is not good...

PM me if you need any more advice.

 

[DRWard]

You have pictured one of the early shunt regulators. Not a good design. Read up posts concerning upgrading to MOSFET or SERIES type regulators. Well worth the small effort and expense.

Check your stator for internal phase resistance. There are 3 white wires coming out of the stator. Check resistance between every combination of these wires, they should be about 1.5 or thereabouts ohms. And they should be consistent between the 3 combinations of wires. Now, check if any of those 3 wires are grounded. Check between the wire and ground. Should be an open circuit, infinite ohms. If one or more is grounded, you need a stator.
Check for AC output of the phases. Set meter for ACVolts, and again check between pairs of the 3 wires to get all 3 combinations. Engine should be revving to about 3,000 RPM. Look for 40 to 50 VAC. On every combinations.

The regulator needs to be securely grounded. This old style unit grounds through the footpeg bracket to the frame. There are many points of resistance in this method of grounding. What I'd do is run a heavy ground wire from a shiny clean mounting screw, right to ground on the battery. I'd also run that red wire directly (through a 30A fuse) to the + battery post. You have now eliminated all the possible sketchy connections in the bikes wiring harness that may be adding resistance, and decreasing power to the battery.

I've got an '85. The charging system was a hassle for the first 27 years I owned it. I wound up with a high output stator from RMStator.com, and a Shindengen SH775 Series regulator, wired in the circuit as I have described. I am getting 14.4 to 14.5 volts at every RPM above idle. The bike cranks like you've got the plugs pulled out - effortlessly. You're gonna see a huge difference in everything from the brightness of the lights, to the loudness of the horn. I've got my headlight relayed, powered directly from the battery, and the stock H-4 bulb is incredibly bright.

One more thing - be sure to SOLDER or use PosiLock connectors on the stator to regulator connections. Twisting and taping them is not good...

PM me if you need any more advice.

Thanks for all the help Bill, I have ordered the new R/R, (MOSFET). Definitely sounds like the way to go. I did check the Stator as you described. The AC voltage looked good and the test for short to ground was all open. I will be eliminating the extra connectors on the circuit. The kit I ordered through roadstercycle looked pretty easy to install. Probably paid a little too much, but his kit had most of the connections already prepared. I charged my original Panasonic battery out of frame, looks like it may still be good. Oh well, I guess I have a spare battery for now.

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[Bill Seward]

There are a lot of counterfeit Shindengen voltage regulators out there. You did good getting yours from Roadstercycle. It will be genuine, and you get all the connectors with the kit. Keep us posted as to how it works, and be sure to solder or PosiLock the stator connections.

 

[jdeitz1979]

There are a lot of counterfeit Shindengen voltage regulators out there. You did good getting yours from Roadstercycle. It will be genuine, and you get all the connectors with the kit. Keep us posted as to how it works, and be sure to solder or PosiLock the stator connections.

I'd like to give a shout out to bill, I followed his write up to the T and my bikes doing awesome.

My mod had been in since the season started. To our new friend with the issues, save your frustrations and follow it to the T. It will be well worth the time and money. I'd also suggest the battery mod, and run something good.

I can go out on any given day, after the bikes been sitting for a week n half, and she fires fast. I know the time frame is pretty sad but I'm a busy guy like most all of us on here and ride when I can, and don't want to worry about "if" my beast is going to start.


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[sdt354]

I pulled in to my driveway and my bike stalled last night. The battery ran down to where it couldn't keep the ignition running. I just put the second Mosfet regulator in and the dam thing appears dead. I wasn't hot like the last dud. Anyway, maybe the stator died. Out to check it in a few minutes. At least it was here when it croaked. I paid good money for this last R/R. It was charging up a storm when I installed it a couple of weeks ago. A volt gauge is getting ordered today also.
Steve-o

 

[sdt354]

I pulled in to my driveway and my bike stalled last night. The battery ran down to where it couldn't keep the ignition running. I just put the second Mosfet regulator in and the dam thing appears dead. I wasn't hot like the last dud. Anyway, maybe the stator died. Out to check it in a few minutes. At least it was here when it croaked. I paid good money for this last R/R. It was charging up a storm when I installed it a couple of weeks ago. A volt gauge is getting ordered today also.
Steve-o

Oops, bad stator leg. I guess they can't last forever. I have a Venture stator I've been looking to install. Today's the day, I want to ride, dam it.

 

[Bill Seward]

I believe a Venture stator can put out considerably more amps. I put a Venture high output unit in Godzilla a while back, it works great.

 

[sdt354]

I believe a Venture stator can put out considerably more amps. I put a Venture high output unit in Godzilla a while back, it works great.

I'm hoping it does,Bill.

 

[DRWard]

Update on repairs. VMAX is back in ACTION! Replaced factory R/R with Shindengen SH775. Now produces right at 13 at idle, more than 14 at 1500 rpm. Very pleased!

Got a chance to clean up the electric under the seat a bit. I eliminated several connector issues. Now the cables go directly to the hot and ground of the battery with a dedicated 30 for the R/R.

Where to mount it was the biggest hurdle in my book, I chose to try to mount in original location, left passer foot peg. Because the SH775 is larger than the OEM one, I had to make a plate to adapt the holes for the new R/R. I couldn't figure how to make it fit between the 2 frame pieces straight, so I slanted it about a 45 degree angle. Here are pictures of the adapter plate, front and back, the R/R mounted on foot peg, and final shots after installed.
It hangs down about about 2 inches below the foot mount; to me it looks OK. Definitely still higher than the exhaust pipe. Not sure if someone had the factory duel exhaust if this would interfere, I have the Kerker 4 to 1. It clears the drive shaft swing with no issues foreseen.
I feel the extended plate will aid in cooling, and also protect the wires from getting bumped if I rolled over anything tall in the road.


Thanks to all that have helped me on this. Special thanks out to Bill and also to Jack from RoadsterCycle.

If anyone interested in more details let me know and I will see if I have more pictures or steps.

 

[Bill Seward]

Great job!! Now add a set of headlight relays, and prepare to start grass fires with your high beam.
Those Furukawa connectors keep water out pretty well, but maybe a bead of silicone sealer wouldn't be a bad idea sometime. That regulator is supposedly extremely reliable, and wiring direct to battery completely negaters the need to do the "crimp fix".

By the way, the SH775 is the Series regulator - the best one out there, good choice.


Go ride it....

 

[DRWard]

Great job!! Now add a set of headlight relays, and prepare to start grass fires with your high beam.
Those Furukawa connectors keep water out pretty well, but maybe a bead of silicone sealer wouldn't be a bad idea sometime. That regulator is supposedly extremely reliable, and wiring direct to battery completely negaters the need to do the "crimp fix".

By the way, the SH775 is the Series regulator - the best one out there, good choice.


Go ride it....

Thanks Bill,

When I was cleaning up all the connectors, I fixed the crimp fix from the PO had done. I eliminated several connectors. It is much cleaner now. Here is a picture of the extra parts. The new wiring harness I bought made it very easy. Soldered a few joints heat shrink and presto, back in business.

Here are a few more pics

Also, I did use some Dielectric grease on the outer ends of the connectors.

 

[Fire-medic]

For aesthetics, I think I would pant the bracket black to make it 'disappear' visually. A good job on the fabrication and installation. Yes, I'd think the bracket would add to the heat-sink capacity.

 

[Donny Daughtry]

Very nice--:clapping:

 

[radley]

excellent job. any more specifics on how you cleaned things upa bit? nice to see scrap go away..

 

[liptoss]

Two thumbs way up! Great job. Vmax now not only looks nice, it works real nice.

 

[DRWard]

excellent job. any more specifics on how you cleaned things upa bit? nice to see scrap go away..

For the most part, cleaning things up was eliminating extra connectors, especially in the charging wiring. Not really sure what all was factory or had been modified from PO (Previous Owner).

Factory wiring normally has a 3 wire connector from stator to R/R, PO had removed connector but used wire nuts to connect these three. I used solder here and heat shrink to fix. (see picture below and previous post for fixed wires.)

Factory red wire from R/R had connector about 12in from R/R and continued up frame rail to the factory crimp hot wire that sits right behind the battery. PO had soldered this crimp and taped. I cut the red wire flush at the crimp eliminating the pigtail down to the R/R. Now the red wire from R/R runs directly to the battery + side with a dedicated in line 30 amp as the only connectors. These are all soldered and heat shrink.

Black wire from R/R; Not sure what factory was here. Mine had a black wire running from the mounting screw of the R/R to a connector about 12in up the frame along side of the red wire. New wiring R/R connector has black wire running al the way to the NEG side of the battery. One connector, soldered and heat shrink.

Other cleanup was the taking the original red wire past the crimp and connecting directly to the battery through a 30 amp in line. similar to the one from the R/R. Mine had a 30 amp fuse, but in a LARGE holder which was bulky and didn't lay down right. The in line fuse tuck down right beside the battery.

That is all I really cleaned up.

 

[DRWard]

For aesthetics, I think I would pant the bracket black to make it 'disappear' visually. A good job on the fabrication and installation. Yes, I'd think the bracket would add to the heat-sink capacity.

I think I will definitely consider painting it Black. I was just ready to get it back together to see if things worked right.

Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[COP RUNNER]

Nice job !