Bike dead, battery charged.

[James C.]

Hello all,
My 07 Vmax has been sitting for roughly two weeks. I went to pull it out today, and tried to fire it up and it fired for about 10 second and then died. After it died, there was no longer any electrical power going to anything. I pulled it out and jumped it, and it will stay running with the choke on keeping the rpms high, if the rpms are low it dies. The rpm guage also reads 7-8000 when the bike is not running that high. If I switch the key to the P position, the front turn signal lights and the tail light come on. If I turn it to on position I get nothing. Took the battery off and charged it up, still getting nothing. Checked all of the fuses also, they're all good. Where should I start next??

 

[James C.]

I topped up the fluid in my battery, I now have power through the bike, but even when I boost it the starter solenoid buzzes and it won't turn over

 

[Parminio]

When you say "topped off the fluid in the battery" that makes me think the battery is shot.

When I first bought my '07, the first winter I made the rookie mistake of leaving my Vmax on a battery tender. The following spring of course I had issues just like you're describing. It fries the cells of the battery.

You probably just got lucky with it even turning over to begin with. If you can jump it off again and have the same symptoms, it's the battery. Definately.

 

[Pighuntingpuppy]

Batteries are cheap. Put a new one in.

 

[Fire-medic]

One or more dead battery cells. Not cheap but I like the lithium ion batteries.

 

[sdt354]

One or more dead battery cells. Not cheap but I like the lithium ion batteries.

I'll never regret putting a lithium ion battery in. Shorie is the one I have, but there are others. It weighs a little over 3 lbs. Lots of cranking power too.

 

[[email protected]]

I'd start by charging the battery again and then having it load tested.

 

[ouchez]

When you say "topped off the fluid in the battery" that makes me think the battery is shot.

When I first bought my '07, the first winter I made the rookie mistake of leaving my Vmax on a battery tender. The following spring of course I had issues just like you're describing. It fries the cells of the battery.

You probably just got lucky with it even turning over to begin with. If you can jump it off again and have the same symptoms, it's the battery. Definately.

I use a Battery Tender Jr. year round,,never caused any damage and battery always good,,,what were you using??

 

[Parminio]

Same thing.

Boiled the water completely out of the battery. Did the same thing to a friends boat battery as well. When I replaced the battery I asked the guy at Batteries Plus Bulbs about it and he said never leave it hooked up. He gets people all the time bringing in dead batteries they had on a tender.

He said it's best to let the battery slowly discharge over time and then put the tender on it the day before you go riding.

I've been doing that ever since and I'm using a 5 year old battery right now.

 

[ouchez]

Same thing.

Boiled the water completely out of the battery. Did the same thing to a friends boat battery as well. When I replaced the battery I asked the guy at Batteries Plus Bulbs about it and he said never leave it hooked up. He gets people all the time bringing in dead batteries they had on a tender.

He said it's best to let the battery slowly discharge over time and then put the tender on it the day before you go riding.

I've been doing that ever since and I'm using a 5 year old battery right now.

I am shocked! I hope more will chime in with their experiences because what you have said is contrary to all my research.

 

[Darrick Chapman]

PC680 I had this battery for 7 yrs and had to charge it this yr for the first time after 2 yrs of sitting in the bike without a charge. It will cost you but i trust me you will love it

 

[putin]

Same thing.

Boiled the water completely out of the battery. Did the same thing to a friends boat battery as well. When I replaced the battery I asked the guy at Batteries Plus Bulbs about it and he said never leave it hooked up. He gets people all the time bringing in dead batteries they had on a tender

I've been doing that ever since and I'm using a 5 year old battery right now.

The same happened to my battery, it was most of the time on the tender. But i thought it was dried because of the heat in LA.

 

[85vmax]

The same happened to my battery, it was most of the time on the tender. But i thought it was dried because of the heat in LA.

Same here, learnt the hard way after buying multiple batteries for multiple bikes, almost every year or so. Now I trickle charge every 2 weeks or so or just b4 I ride. Been good since.
Just happened to my golf cart 1000 bucks later for batteries they tell me to never leave it on the charger....evap the water.

 

[Wirenut]

I work with batteries everyday. Gel, Ni-Cd, Lead Acid... Batteries are hooked up to a charger 24/7 are are maintained every 30 days. I have 12v battery banks that are 14 years old. I also have 120v banks comprised of 9 PC680 cells that are 7 years or older still in service. You can leave batteries on a charger if your float voltage is correct and maintained. The label on the battery should have a +/- float charge spec. I can tell you from experience that the batteries that are boiling the water out of them are being overcharged. An under charged battery cell is going to develop a white calcium crystal like substance on the vents. Also, it is normal to have to add water to a battery every 6 months or so. Just make sure it’s distilled or deionized water so you don’t destroy the plates in the cell.

 

[ouchez]

I work with batteries everyday. Gel, Ni-Cd, Lead Acid... Batteries are hooked up to a charger 24/7 are are maintained every 30 days. I have 12v battery banks that are 14 years old. I also have 120v banks comprised of 9 PC680 cells that are 7 years or older still in service. You can leave batteries on a charger if your float voltage is correct and maintained. The label on the battery should have a +/- float charge spec. I can tell you from experience that the batteries that are boiling the water out of them are being overcharged. An under charged battery cell is going to develop a white calcium crystal like substance on the vents. Also, it is normal to have to add water to a battery every 6 months or so. Just make sure it’s distilled or deionized water so you don’t destroy the plates in the cell.

A Battery Tender, or Maintainer is designed to bring a battery to 100% and shut off until the battery drops below a certain point and then bring it back up to 100%, then shut off,,it is not designed to fry a battery. My Schumacher SP 1286 has a digital readout and I monitor it and this is exactly what it does, at 100% shuts down, if their is a problem with the battery it lets you know and will not put out a charge. I also have a Cetec charger that has worked great during the winters keeping the charge and not frying the battery. What I am reading here is that some battery tenders are really a scam and do not work as advertised or are coming out flawed from the factory,,very alarming.

 

[Fire-medic]

Sounds like some chargers are providing too-much charge, you should be able to use an amp meter to determine what the float charge is. My knowledge is that you are supposed to charge batteries at up-to 1/10 of their amp/hour rating, for best results, and longest life. A 20 amp/hour battery would be charged at up-to 2 amps when hooked to a charger, so a re-charge could take awhile-hours, if it's well-discharged. Also lithium ion batteries have circuitry which controls the charge, and which can also keep-track of how the battery is treated, a feature of the batteries in cordless tools like DeWalt, Milwaukee, Craftsman, and others. I don't know if that feature is in the Shorai and Ballistic Li-ion batteries.

A Li-ion battery for a cordless tool must have a certain level of its charge to accept a re-charge. If it falls-below this minimum value, the battery in its 'smart charger' will display a fault code, indicating that the battery is incapable of accepting a charge. Using a non li-ion charger on a Li-ion battery can damage it, though some people do just-that, to bring the Li-ion battery above the minimum residual battery charge level, to allow the battery to accept a charge on the dedicated Li-ion charger. Remember this is a 'home-remedy' fix for cordless tools' Li-ion batteries. Go-online and check out the forums for info on this battery behavior, the 'fixes' people try, and sometimes the fires which occur. I am NOT suggesting that you try this at-home! Comments made here are merely discussion of other Li-ion battery owners' behavior, and involve things specifically proscribed by the Li-ion battery manufacturers. That means, "don't do this!" As mentioned sometimes short-circuits result from Li-ion battery failures, leading to fires, including structure fires where some 'experimenter' had the misfortune to cause this.

Without looking at the specs, a Battery Tender (I have three different ones) will sense the amount of charge the battery can safely-accept, and increase the amps delivered to a maximum point/value, and then taper-off. The float charge is 0.05 amps delivered, which is not going to 'boil-out the battery.'

AGM batteries have no provision for adding water, nor do Li-ion. A traditional lead-acid battery does. That's why some motorcycles actually have sideways storage for their Li-ion batteries, as there is no acid to-spill. See the $$$$ Ducatis. That greatly-increases the packaging possibilities as a hard-bound dictionary is probably larger in-volume and heavier in mass than a Shorai or Ballistic li-ion battery.

https://www.vmaxforum.net/threads/lithium-ion-battery.20904/

 

[Wirenut]

A Battery Tender, or Maintainer is designed to bring a battery to 100% and shut off until the battery drops below a certain point and then bring it back up to 100%, then shut off,,it is not designed to fry a battery. My Schumacher SP 1286 has a digital readout and I monitor it and this is exactly what it does, at 100% shuts down, if their is a problem with the battery it lets you know and will not put out a charge. I also have a Cetec charger that has worked great during the winters keeping the charge and not frying the battery. What I am reading here is that some battery tenders are really a scam and do not work as advertised or are coming out flawed from the factory,,very alarming.

That’s true but you’re leaving out other factors as well. Temperature and specific gravity also play a roll in how much voltage and amperage gets put on the battery charging. The amount is inversely proportional to environment. Just out curiosity, were you charging your battery in a climate controlled environment during the winter? The chargers that I work with have a thermostat wire connected directly to one of the battery terminals to automatically adjust the float voltage based on conditions present. Looking at Battery Tender’s technical page they do the same thing but it looks like only at a specific range. It could be that what ever brand charger that is being used is not bestly matched to the make/model battery. Probably worth a look when purchasing both cell and charger.

 

[Woody]

Not wanting to steal this thread.
But i have 1 question.
As far as i understand.to charge a lithium ion battery.you need the correct charger.designed for lithium ion.now here's my question.
Wouldn't a motorcycles charging system. Harm or be harmed by a lithium ion battery?

I currently use an oddesy mat battery.10 years old.and always on a tender.garage is insulated.but not heated. Temperature stays above freezing.also by not heating
The area.where vmax is parked.no condensation . since i don't have the option.to heat garage all the time.

 

[user 16790]

that's a good point, different chargers to externally charge, or the same charging method while fitted to the vehicle

 

[dannymax]

Hard to beat a PC680 with an Optimate 4 charger for the winter lay up.