Brakes

[ahmedoabbas]

It turns out that alot of vmax owners i knew (mostly police officers, as the bike was delivered to the police department in Egypt) had many accidents because of the brakes (aside from the terrible traffic we have (Egypt))!!

can anything be done to improve the braking on this magnificent bike?

 

[bazwell]

Yes!
The best modification to do currently is putting 6 spot calipers on the front.
Contact Sean Morley for the best prices. http://www.vmaxforum.net/member.php?u=70

 

[midmoraider]

I just put chinese wave rotors, EBC HH pads and adjustable chinese levers on my '04 and it made a huge difference in stopping power.

 

[ninjaneer]

Welcome to the forum and the brotherhood. Check out the FAQ section

Did someone ask for a new-owner FAQ? ...

34. I don't like the braking power. What are my options?
Install EBC's "HH" pads in your stock calipers. Just those will make a big difference. Still not good enough? People with "new" forks ('93-up) can directly swap several other Yamaha calipers, from the R6/R1/Fazers/FJR. Sean makes adapters to use Hayabusa 6-pot's for both new and old forks, which are a popular mod. Getting a sportbike's master can also help.
...

...

...
brakes

• if you elect to change out the front calipers like RaWarrior suggests take note of the following:
  • you may have to change out your rotors. see below.
  • the VMax's stock master cylinder has a bore diameter of 5/8". you should pair your "new" calipers with a master cylinder that has the same bore diameter as that of what the source bike used. otherwise, the brakes will feel wooden. for example:
    • if you bolt on a set of R1 4-pots then you really ought to use a 14mm master cylinder (FJR1300 is the ideal master if maintaining stock appearance is important to you).
    • if you bolt-on 6-pots that came off of a YZF750, the VMax's stock master cylinder is fine.
• change out the rotors for some extra bite (Galfer seems to be a favorite, as well as the Chinese Arashis sold on ebay)
  • depending on the year of your bike, this may be required anyways if you change out calipers.
    • for example putting R1 calipers on the front of an '85-'92 will need some new rotors that are the same size as that of the '93-'07s
    • putting a 4-pot on the back of any Gen1 will require replacing the rotor with one of the same size of the '93-'07 fronts
• install some stainless steel braided hydraulic lines as a countermeasure to line swelling.

...

 

[Klatuu]

Second on the easier & less expensive: EBC HH Pads

They won't give the degree of improvement that a set of one of the compatible sport bike calipers will, but you may find it's quite good enough.

 

[naughtyG]

Second on the easier & less expensive: EBC HH Pads

They won't give the degree of improvement that a set of one of the compatible sport bike calipers will, but you may find it's quite good enough.

I second that.

But I'll also add that going from stock to the chinese wave rotors ($135/pair) made a night and day difference on my '86, and that was with the stock '86 calipers (and Jedi's adapters)

 

[KJShover]

I just put chinese wave rotors, EBC HH pads and adjustable chinese levers on my '04 and it made a huge difference in stopping power.

+1 unk:

 

[Fire-medic]

When I see people comment that adjustable levers helped their braking performance, I assume they are referring to the distance they have to reach to the lever, where the shorter reach helps them because of their hand size.

When mention is made of the rotors, if the alloy is different, then I can see where that made a difference, or if you are talking of severe-duty, like an endurance racer, but if the alloy was stainless steel, whatever spec is common, then I am not sure where the advantage was in changing rotors, especially if the alloy is the same, and good luck in getting the manufacturer to reveal that, though I have seen some state their alloy.

As to the slots/holes in the rotors, I have read about the heat dissipation they provide, or the "release of boundary-layer gases accumulating from the interface of the caliper friction surface and the rotor," which sounds suspiciously-like the "oxygen-free CU wires for superior sound reproduction" that manufacturers like Monster Cable like to champion for stereo systems, or Nology for their automotive ignition stuff. In other words, more marketing hype than actual performance gain... . I would like to adapt this to marketing my new beer glass which will "provide a superior taste experience due to micro-texture specifically-calibrated to enhance the release of hops flavor as the liquid passes-over the rough surface, promoting the release of the full depth of flavor texture into each and every sip, and allowing the full "nose" of the brew to impact your olfactory organ so as-to deliver maximum enjoyment of your craft-brewed artisan Belgian-style ale, as you introduce the beverage to the nether-regions of your gullet."

Now if you have glazed rotors, w/"hard spots" from overheating, where the coefficient of friction of the alloy has been detrimentally-affected, then yes, I can understand where the improvement comes-from.

My non-engineer viewpoint is that the two biggest improvements would come from different pad composition, as-in the oft-referred-to HH pads, and in changing rubber brake lines to s.s.-covered Teflon lines, or whatever the interior composition is, where the rubber lines allow swelling under-pressure of use, once they get old.

I just don't see the advantage to going to another rotor unless yours are worn or defective, unless it is offering a superior coefficient of friction. I am ignoring the esthetics of the appearance here.

 

[naughtyG]

You're missing one big point here medic: when I went to the chinese wave rotors on my '86 with Jedi's adapters, the rotor increased in diameter to 298mm.

That alone makes a huge difference, that any 85-92 Vmax can benefit from. Now of course, I'm not saying that going to 93-07 rotors with adapters wouldn't provide 90% of the same benefits, but you gotta admit those wavy rotors do look cool, which accounts for a lot of stopping glares!

 

[jedi-]

The Chinese rotors are Stainless steel and semi floating, the oem Yamaha are fixed and made from ferrous material, their properties are not the same.

 

[Fire-medic]

Oh, yes, I see your point & as a matter-of-fact, when I was faced w/having to replace my 1992 down tubes due to pitting, I bought two complete downtube/slider ass'ys. fromanother member on here who just happens to live locally to me. He has since sold his bike, in-fact, it's the bike "a113ycat" bought, that Kyle & I collaborated in getting to TX for him, that he sold to "Bonehead" after his unfortunate test ride/crash.

I already had purchased a 43 mm upper/lower triple tree in-prospect of upgrading my 1992 front end, so the downtube/slider ass'y pair I bought in Davie FL worked-out great. I already had a pair of Sumitomo two-pair opposed piston calipers w/the 100 mm bolt spacing on the 1993+ front sliders, so it all went together smoothly. I installed new "All-Balls" tapered bearings in the steering head, and I had a set of stock 298 mm rotors too. The difference was considerable, and I am very pleased w/the new front end. I don't have any headshake or wobbling, though I am not one to test 130+ mph speeds for that! "I have a 'close friend' who has."

I like to treat my bike as a hobby, so I tend to acquire extra parts & then as I have time, I will swap-out one for the other to see which I like best. I have a complete FZR1000 front end I bought to swap-out for the stock 1992 before the 43 mm tubes came available. I also have some R-1 'blue spots' (calipers) I bought off Kyle awhile ago that I have yet to try. Right now I am pleased w/the Sumitomos, but one day...

I also have a couple of exhausts to try, one which will require a bit of fabrication to make work. Both are 4/1's but for now I run the stocker, nice & quiet, and I don't annoy my neighbors.

Then there are the Dynojet stage 7 kitted carbs I also acquired from another member, just waiting to go-on once I resolve the exhaust issue.

So, as you can see, I am aware as to the benefits of going w/the later-spec braking components, as-well as what other stuff we can accomplish by prudent shopping and working within the network of acquaintances here. I am always willing to learn, and anyone who has something worthwhile to contribute will find a captive audience here.

I spent part of this morning reading the entire 17 pages + of the COP thread, in preparation for doing this to mine, I have two sets of four COP's I bought at a great price from another member. I am just figuring out how I want to do the wiring. My friend Steve at Under Pressure in Dania Beach FL who has built a number of big-displacement VMax engines for customers, including NoS and supercharged, has repeatedly suggested going to the Dyna ignition for its adjustable rev limiter & advance curves, but I have also been following the other thread on the forum about the other ignition setup, and haven't made up my mind about how to go. I don't think the other one is 'done' yet, so I think I will bide my time.

Apart from the COP's I would like to do the KOSO instrument and get a larger, wider rear rim and go to radials. I have been saving for the rear wheel, and will eventually get there. Actually, since I went to the new steering head bearings and new rear Pro. Suspension shocks, w/new stock size bias-ply tires, my bike handles fine, so I am in no-hurry to have to spend $ sooner than I have to, to be able to run the radial tires. Always room for improvements, always a person at this web address willing to read about what experiences others have had. Thanks for the comment.

 

[ninjaneer]

I can relate FM. I, too, poured over the COPs threads (there are a couple more) before building my set. I have a set of blue dots that I am now saving for the rear after bolting on a set of 6-pot Sumis off of a YZF750. Frankly, I went with Arashis purely for the bling factor, dismissing any potential performance enhancement, if it existed.

What should be divulged, is that any mod opens up a can of worms that can easily consume the funds and the zeal to tinker. Lord knows I don't need to slap on a set of USDs, but OMG what is left to do, and wouldn't it be the bomb to do so!!!!

Regards from my Taptalking Hercules Android

 

[Fire-medic]

Yeah, I have seen some good deals on the USD's locally, but for now, and after just getting my bike back in operable shape ("just say no" to dyno's!), I just wanna ride for awhile and not do anything to it which would take more than 1-2 days to accomplish.

If I saved for a Gen II that would make me spring for one at the right price, but I am not actively looking for one now. Maybe in a few years when they come down to ~$10K...

I looked at the Chinese rotors, but I got a good deal on eBay rotors, used, for about half the price the cheapest Chinese rotors are showing-up at, including shipping. I am corresponding w/a supplier about some European rotors, but still need to confirm bolt pattern & etc. to spend the $.

To me, the cool mod would be a new frame using top-flight suspension parts, but by the time you are done, you would probably not be too-far from Gen II territory. I tried emailing the guy in UK who does the VMax alloy AL frames, but he must be too-busy working to answer. Of course, Harris is another option.

Actually, I need to just enjoy what I have now and do stuff within reasonable time & $ constraints. "Mod Monkey, get-thee behind me!"

Today is a perfect day to ride, but my wife works long hours, and this is time we get to spend together, so I am waiting to ride my refurbished pile, "another day." She wants no-part of motorcycling, and has been understanding about me doing work on my bikes. That includes $$ spent, so I need to make sure she stays happy, too.