Canadians get screwed by Yamaha

[G Man]

thats illegal , if the same bike is sold in canada.... ...

I'll tell you something. It is spelled out clearly in the dealer agreement. No selling of any product for export out of country, even though it does happen. The dealer agreement is a binding legal contract. If Yamaha felt like it, they could pull the dealership out from a Yamaha dealer for it. Very rarely do you see it happen, but they have the right and can strong arm dealers if and when they see fit. No joke.

G Man

 

[RJ RJ RJ]

I'll tell you something. It is spelled out clearly in the dealer agreement. No selling of any product for export out of country, even though it does happen. The dealer agreement is a binding legal contract. If Yamaha felt like it, they could pull the dealership out from a Yamaha dealer for it. Very rarely do you see it happen, but they have the right and can strong arm dealers if and when they see fit. No joke.

G Man

sorry your right that they put that in a dealer agreement.... but that "dont mean its right"... :

Pricing of autos targeted

Canadian, U.S. manufacturers to face $2B class action over sales practices
Jim Middlemiss, Financial Post Published: Wednesday, September 26, 2007


The major Canadian and U.S. auto manufacturers are about to be hit with a $2-billion class-action suit in Canada over their sales practices, which a law firm alleges artificially enhances the price of vehicles in Canada and dissuades consumers from crossing the border to take advantage of a stronger dollar to purchase or lease cheaper vehicles in the United States.
Toronto class-action law firm Juroviesky and Ricci is expected to file the suit on behalf of four Toronto residents who say they paid more for cars in Canada, after factoring in the exchange rate, than the comparable or identical cars cost in the United States. The suit covers consumers who bought cars between August, 2005, and August, 2007, a period when the Canadian dollar was rapidly appreciating. It also seeks $100-million in punitive damages.
The action, which also names the Canadian Automobile Dealers Association (CADA) and its U.S. counterpart, the National Automobile Dealers Association (NADA), alleges the defendants "conspired to lessen competition and to unreasonably enhance the price of new cars sold in Canada," contrary to the Competition Act.
The suit claims the defendants engaged in a "series of concerted actions, agreements and directives amongst each other" that had the effect of reducing competition in the U.S. and Canadian marketplace for new cars. They did so by attempting to control and limit the cross-shipping of new cars across the border, the suit claims.
Such actions allegedly include:
-forcing consumers to sign "no-export clauses" in their sales contracts to prevent them from taking vehicles home to Canada or the United States;
-failing to honour warranties from vehicles purchased on the other side of the border;
-penalizing dealers who sold vehicles, which were later exported, through the use of "chargebacks" or threatening to withhold inventory or popular styles and colour of vehicles;
-Threatening to terminate dealerships of Canadian dealers that didn't comply.
The Competition Act makes it an offence for anyone to conspire to lessen competition or unreasonably enhance the prices.
William Price, director of legal services at NADA, said he had not seen the lawsuit and was unable to comment. Neither could Honda or Ford Motor Co. Calls to CADA, General Motors Corp. and Chrysler Canada were not returned.
The plaintiffs' lawyer Henry Juroviesky said "we allege a cross-border conspiracy between U.S. head offices and their Canadian affiliates to each protect the high profits in their respective jurisdictions by not allowing the cross-shipping or import of cars from Canada to the U.S. or the U.S. to Canada." The suit claims that when the dollar trades below US70?, it's advantageous for U.S. consumers to buy cars here, and when it trades above US80?, it's better for Canadians to buy cars in the United States because of the pricing differential between the two countries. Mr. Juroviesky said that under the "natural laws of competition," the prices should be comparable, once the exchange is factored in.


Right now you should be able to go to Buffalo and get a fully loaded Camry for the mid-20s. In a Toronto showroom you're walking out at $36,000 or $37,000 and it [the dollar] is at par."A recent report from automotive analyst Dennis DesRosiers found the price differential between the United States and Canada is typically $1,000, but goes as high as $7,960 for an intermediate SUV.
This is not the first class action the automotive industry faces over anti-trust allegations regarding Canada-U.S. pricing issues. A similar suit in the United States against manufacturers and dealer associations has been certified, although Toyota has settled for $35-million, but didn't admit to wrongdoing.
Bill Osler, president of the North American Automobile Trade Association, an association for car importers and exporters, said, "The lawsuit doesn't surprise me," noting the ongoing U.S. suit and troubles over cross-border pricing in Europe. "Manufacturers try to charge as much as they can for a vehicle in any particular market. It's easier for them to have different prices in different countries, even if a car is effectively the same."
The case is far from a slam dunk, said Ariel Katz, a law professor at the University of Toronto. Competition law makes a distinction between vertical relationships, those involving a manufacturer and its own distribution network, and horizontal relationships, those among competing manufacturers. There is more leeway in assessing conspiracies under vertical relations, he said, as the authorities are sympathetic to companies that are trying to build their markets and protect their dealers' investments. "It allows for exclusive relationships."
When it comes to horizontal relationships, "you have to prove there is a conspiracy, but you don't have to prove the effect of the conspiracy."
Mr. Juroviesky isn't overly concerned. "At the end of the day, they artificially enhanced the price of cars. At this point that is something that is almost factually undeniable."

 

[82ndCowboy]

I think they are barking up the wrong tree.
It doesn't make sense that a car manufacturer would be conspiring against itself in two different markets.
They are missing the whole fact that businesses are in business to make money. And if the market in one country pays more for a vehicle, then so be it. If no one bought the vehicles at that price, then the market would dictate a lower cost.
I think the real reason things are more expensive in Canada is because the government is taking a bigger chunk of profits to pay for all the things they provide, like free health care.
And I read an article last year that was talking about how Canada was offering free housing for Mexicans to come up there and work.
So you have to look at the bigger picture, sure the government provides more for their citizens, but the money for that has to come from somewhere!
So which is more important, paying less for stuff, or getting free handouts from the government!

 

[maxcruiser]

I think they are barking up the wrong tree.
It doesn't make sense that a car manufacturer would be conspiring against itself in two different markets.
They are missing the whole fact that businesses are in business to make money. And if the market in one country pays more for a vehicle, then so be it. If no one bought the vehicles at that price, then the market would dictate a lower cost.
I think the real reason things are more expensive in Canada is because the government is taking a bigger chunk of profits to pay for all the things they provide, like free health care.
And I read an article last year that was talking about how Canada was offering free housing for Mexicans to come up there and work.
So you have to look at the bigger picture, sure the government provides more for their citizens, but the money for that has to come from somewhere!
So which is more important, paying less for stuff, or getting free handouts from the government!

Well hold on Cowboy! I think the point is the suggested retail price of a vehicule or item should not be hugely different from USA and Canada, if the product being sold is the same in both countries. What is tacted on later, gov't taxes, surcharges, whatever is the price to be paid to live in that country.

I don't have a problem paying more taxes to get more services, etc... but that has nothing to do with manufacturers trying to gouge or impose preventive sales techniques - that I do have a problem with.

Mike

 

[82ndCowboy]

Well sorry Mike!
But why would a company have different MSRP for different countries?
Could it be the cost of selling those vehicles in that country are Higher?
I don't have the answer, I'm just guessing.
And also... if you sold a widget and could get more money for the widget because the market demand allows for it, wouldn't you sell that widget for more, so as to make a better profit?
I'm not knocking you for being frustrated with the different price. And I totally agree that is unfair to restrict you from going to the US and buying something for less and bringing it back to Canada.
But as they say...
That's just As The World Turns!

 

[maxcruiser]

That's just As The World Turns! For now, Cowboy! - when there was a 30 cent per dollar difference between the two currencies, than the difference was justified, now that the dollars are at par, they thought or hoped that we would not notice if they kept the price differences the same. No matter if the shoe was on the other foot, as per say - we ALL as consumers must keep them honest.

It's corporate greed just like fuel prices, etc... pure bullshit!

Mike

 

[Thevmaxrider]

One thing we have to remember is that this is MSRP. My local dealer, as posted here in another thread, has offered pricing below that already. At full retail, plus associated fees you would be at $24k easily before taxes. Her highest price, which includes all fees (less taxes), licensing, first service (all parts and labour incuded), 15% off all accessories, 10% of all labour charges is the same as MSRP so there are savings out there if a dealer is willing to budge. Problem is most dealers are looking at this bike as a "special edition" and will not move off of full retail.

 

[RJ RJ RJ]

I think they are barking up the wrong tree.
It doesn't make sense that a car manufacturer would be conspiring against itself in two different markets.
They are missing the whole fact that businesses are in business to make money. And if the market in one country pays more for a vehicle, then so be it. If no one bought the vehicles at that price, then the market would dictate a lower cost.
I think the real reason things are more expensive in Canada is because the government is taking a bigger chunk of profits to pay for all the things they provide, like free health care.
And I read an article last year that was talking about how Canada was offering free housing for Mexicans to come up there and work.
So you have to look at the bigger picture, sure the government provides more for their citizens, but the money for that has to come from somewhere!
So which is more important, paying less for stuff, or getting free handouts from the government!

Actually...the whole point is no one cares what the msrp is in one country or another.... its quite right to point out "why would they do it...and compete against them selves" THATS EXACTLY THE POINT...they ar not competing:

"conspired to lessen competition and to unreasonably enhance the price of new cars sold in Canada," contrary to the Competition Act."

BTW...we dont offer free housing to Mexicans who come to work.....we offer free housing to ANYONE who comes to work....my family came here from italy and worked the railways to feed their family and help build the nation. Just like the Irish the French and all the rest. The woman i married came here as a refugee from Vietnam with her sisters and not one of them got a free home, haha.... they all got jobs, worked hard and now have kids in medical school .... just between you and i ...being a born and bred Canadian and growing up here...i have never seen any immigrants take the dole.....not like some of my friends from highschool have.... But hey, that what social assistance is for...to help ya out when you need it.....