Cannot rev past 6500 RPM under load

[n00bzi11a]

I've digged a bit more, this time around the CDI/ECU Area.

Just to be clear, this Vmax is an 85 Euro model, without Vboost. According to the VIN Plate, it's an 2EN model.

The CDI in it is a TID14-95 3UF-11 (I think this ECU is only available on the 91- forward models)

I'm pretty sure this ECU is not stock. and also that it has been opened before. It seems to be covered by some kind of conformal coating and I've tried to open it after removing the 4 screws in each corner but whithou luck. It seems to be glued together.

Another thing I've noticed is that both plugs on the bike that connect to the ECU are missing either 1 or 2 pins. (I need to doube check the wiring diagram to see if it's normal) but at some point, on the 8 pin plug, the ECU has been connected to something that had every pin (Since every pin has scratch marks) . On the 6 Pin plug, you can see that one pin is not scratched and it coincides with the black pin on the motorcycle.

Can someone confirm or deny where this CDI came from based on it's numbers and could it be some issues using and early bike with an late ECU?

Thanks

 

[MaxMidnight]

According to the info I have the 3UF ignition control units were fitted to 1990 - 96 model years and the silver label indicates a single pick-up.
For the same period the Euro bikes had 3LF ICU's which didn't have V Boost.

My records show the first French bikes were 2EN's which was an '86 model year and would probably had a 1FK unit. Assuming this is correct then you would have twin pick-ups and the 3UF is the wrong unit.

 

[n00bzi11a]

According to the info I have the 3UF ignition control units were fitted to 1990 - 96 model years and the silver label indicates a single pick-up.
For the same period the Euro bikes had 3LF ICU's which didn't have V Boost.

My records show the first French bikes were 2EN's which was an '86 model year and would probably had a 1FK unit. Assuming this is correct then you would have twin pick-ups and the 3UF is the wrong unit.

Since this bike seems to be an complete mismatched mess, I'm going to confirm that indeed there are 2 pickup coils. I've confirmed in the past that the serial on the engine seems to match the frame.

I'll give you feedback regarding the coils.

Also, since I'll probably need an replacement ECU, is there anyone here on the forums that sells 80's ECU? I've saw Morley 's muscle that sells Ignitech that are compatible withthe 80's bike. Or should I go with an different route?.

Thanks

 

[Fire-medic]

Easiest way to I.D. your pick-up coils

 

[MaxMidnight]

Also, since I'll probably need an replacement ECU, is there anyone here on the forums that sells 80's ECU? I've saw Morley 's muscle that sells Ignitech that are compatible withthe 80's bike. Or should I go with an different route?.

I guess it depends on what you intend to do with the bike.
Simplest would be an OE unit which just plugs in and all being well allows the bike to rev freely. But you are buying second hand and therefore there is some degree of risk involved unless it comes from a known source.

Then there is the Ignitech which is fully programmable to gives you infinite possibilities to fiddle should you have the desire. These are available in Europe.

There is also the Dyna 3000 where you can alter the ignition timing although how much benefit that yield I don't know. I know they are available in the UK so assume also in Portugal but based on UK prices are significantly more expensive than the Ignitech.

If you just want to ride, enjoy the bike (and why not after all this time) and the price is right I would try and source a good OE unit.

But as the Ignitech is reasonably priced and does give scope for adjustments should you wish it is a very attractive option.

 

[n00bzi11a]

Thanks Fire-medic and MaxMidnight for the awesome tips.
So. I've spent a bit identifying some things and the discoveries are disturbing.

This is an 2EN bike with an 2EN engine. However during it's life it had an complete wiring loom because not only it has only 1 pickup coil but also te colours of the nylon plugs that connect to the ECU/CDI/TCI suggest that it's an 90's wiring

Not only that, but the 7 cables going to the diode block suggest that's not an EU wiring loom but an US or Canada wiring.

I also need to double check what diode is that and if it matches the wiring . Because both the EU early model wiring and the US Late model use 7 pins to the diode block but it's pinout is different.

I'm now suspecting that the stator is the original one, designed for the twin pickup coil and it was left unchanged. Could that explain my issue?

 

[Fire-medic]

Yes I believe that would cause your issue. The signal trigger isn't synching properly from the 1985-1989 rotor to the later CDI box. As you began by checking the pinout locations, check that against your wire loom in-place.

 

[MaxMidnight]

Don't know if there are any markings on the rotor but the early ones are 1FK and the later 3UF

 

[Fire-medic]

Don't know if there are any markings on the rotor but the early ones are 1FK and the later 3UF

That should help him, a good suggestion.

 

[n00bzi11a]

I've replaced the clutch in this bike and a great tip was to do it in the sidestand in order to not drip any oil and avoid a complete oil flush.

Since there is quite some oil in the rotor area, should I drain it first? Or is there any suggestion to not create a huge mess in the ground?

Best Regards.

 

[Fire-medic]

On the centerstand you should lose little oil removing the stator/rotor cover.

 

[MaxMidnight]

Or is there any suggestion to not create a huge mess in the ground?

Stating the bleedin' obvious but a drip tray and newspaper?

 

[n00bzi11a]

So. I didn't touch the bike because I was uncertain about what to look for. I've also been studying how does a stator / rotor / pickup coil work and I'm much familiar now.
It seems like the difference between the 80's and the 90's bike is not the stator but the rotor (I know, it has been said before but I'm dumb and was figuring out what everything was called)
Visually, the 80's rotor seems to not be compleetly smooth inside (pics bellow)


The 90's rotor is slightly different on the edge "lip", seems to have engraved "IT2" on the outer edge and other markings. and notice the difference inside:
So, I just need to crack open the left cover, and if the rotor is similar to the first pic, it could be the culprit.

...if it's not I'll throw the freaking bike into the nearest river and let the fishes have it...

 

[MaxCummins]

Just looking through this for the first time. Seems like you have a bike that won't go past 6500 and have tried everything electrical. Has the engine been opened for any reason? Cams being out of time will cause this exact same thing. Don't remember who it was, but I remember years ago at a Thunder rally someone had just put in new cams and forget the extra 180 before dropping in the other bank; results in similar problems. I just read this really fast, so if I missed something sorry, just thought I would throw an idea out for you.

 

[n00bzi11a]

Well... The stator rotor is from an newer Vmax and it's the correct one for only 1 pickup coil. It seems that the wiring/CDI/pickup coil/ Rotor is a match.

The bad news is that I don't know what the issue could be... Maybe a misbehaved CDI?
Here are some pics of the rotor and pickup coil:

 

[n00bzi11a]

Aftre leaving the bike on a mechanic, e calls me almost a month after saying the engine ins knocking badly.
I went there to check and indeed is knocking quite a bit (it wasn't before).
After 2 km, when going back to the shop, the engine seized mid corner. Fortunatly didn't fall of the bike but had to call Road Assistance to recover the bike.

I'm suspecting the mechanic screwed up real time, depite claiming he only rebuilt the carbs.
Anyway, now I have a bike for parts since engines are quite expensive and hard to come by in europe.

 

[Fire-medic]

Parting it out you should be able to recover some cash.

Sorry to hear that it seized.

 

[Jack Hammer]

One month to rebuild carbs??? There's foul play there for sure. And your engine wasn't making noises before but had revving problems.

What do you think happened there?

 

[Tom Determan]

Joy ride ?

 

[n00bzi11a]

I'm not sure. But I'm guessing it was due to over revving the engine.

Either that or it was a hell of an coincidence my issue was a bad engine since the beginning .
But I don't believe in coincidences